Comments on: Can Virtual Worlds Save Social Media? http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:22:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: links for 2009-07-01 | Chris Abraham http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-56237 links for 2009-07-01 | Chris Abraham Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:03:01 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-56237 [...] Can Virtual Worlds Save Social Media? In any case, Chris Abraham has a long post on how Twitter’s hype cycle is BETTER than Second Life’s hype cycle and it’s because – well, because it’s light, and cute, and it’s easy to use. Which is fine, except that if I wanted a light, cute, easy to use version of Second Life I’d restrict it to being a platform where all you could do is post 140 character messages and call it a day. I wouldn’t need a client download to accomplish that. [...] […] Can Virtual Worlds Save Social Media? In any case, Chris Abraham has a long post on how Twitter’s hype cycle is BETTER than Second Life’s hype cycle and it’s because – well, because it’s light, and cute, and it’s easy to use. Which is fine, except that if I wanted a light, cute, easy to use version of Second Life I’d restrict it to being a platform where all you could do is post 140 character messages and call it a day. I wouldn’t need a client download to accomplish that. […]

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-56197 Dusan Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:37:44 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-56197 That's a great analogy Anthony - and I'm sure Mitch Kapor would agree. ;) That’s a great analogy Anthony - and I’m sure Mitch Kapor would agree. ;)

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By: Anthony Fontana http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-56186 Anthony Fontana Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:43:20 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-56186 Second Life (and more importantly its Open Source sister) are far different systems than the current surge of Twitter. I can't do much SL from within Twitter (other than SLURL), but I can Tweet from within SL. One is a Platform and one is a Tool. It's like comparing Firefox to Twitter. (And you still have to download a browser client... but nobody complains about that.) SL would be better off if people started comparing it to Firefox or perhaps even the Adobe Suite. Platforms on which tools can be built. Let me rephrase that... Linden Lab would be better off if they began thinking about SL in terms of Firefox development - as a competitor. Second Life (and more importantly its Open Source sister) are far different systems than the current surge of Twitter. I can’t do much SL from within Twitter (other than SLURL), but I can Tweet from within SL. One is a Platform and one is a Tool.

It’s like comparing Firefox to Twitter. (And you still have to download a browser client… but nobody complains about that.) SL would be better off if people started comparing it to Firefox or perhaps even the Adobe Suite. Platforms on which tools can be built. Let me rephrase that… Linden Lab would be better off if they began thinking about SL in terms of Firefox development - as a competitor.

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By: John Lopez http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-56035 John Lopez Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:35:22 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-56035 I left out the part about Second Life opening up the music, movie and HTML sides, bringing them in world or allowing links out to browsers, so it does appear that I'm arguing that it is more closed than I think it is. (I wrote a tool that took mind maps and put them in world, so I'm painfully aware of all of the above and more, but I did some cut with no paste to my post.) On the other hand, the "inbound" links to Second Life content are pretty much tied to a large download and the teleport map. I'm not against that on principle (the experience of Second Life pretty much requires a fat client) but that is what restricts the platform in a social media context. I find it somewhat dissapointing that many people I know have seen more Second Life via YouTube (or over my shoulder) than via the Second Life viewer with their own avatar. I left out the part about Second Life opening up the music, movie and HTML sides, bringing them in world or allowing links out to browsers, so it does appear that I’m arguing that it is more closed than I think it is. (I wrote a tool that took mind maps and put them in world, so I’m painfully aware of all of the above and more, but I did some cut with no paste to my post.)

On the other hand, the “inbound” links to Second Life content are pretty much tied to a large download and the teleport map. I’m not against that on principle (the experience of Second Life pretty much requires a fat client) but that is what restricts the platform in a social media context.

I find it somewhat dissapointing that many people I know have seen more Second Life via YouTube (or over my shoulder) than via the Second Life viewer with their own avatar.

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By: cube3 http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-55991 cube3 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:29:22 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-55991 the bottom line is that vr 3drt is a "medium" while twitter is just the "trendy" use of a medium--- text, feeds. arent you bored of all this yet?:) just go do some work;) the bottom line is that vr 3drt is a “medium” while twitter is just the “trendy” use of a medium— text, feeds.

arent you bored of all this yet?:)

just go do some work;)

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-55948 Dusan Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:27:01 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-55948 @John - great and valid points. Although I have to say that the idea that SL is a walled garden has increasingly less traction. Look at the inclusion of HTTP-In, the coming HTML on a prim, and the full ability to integrate what happens inside SL with the rest of the Web. The ability to access part of this content through your iPhone, custom clients, light clients, chat clients and other means increasingly connects SL to the wider web and makes it less like a walled garden and more like a "destination" within a Web of information and social connections. I really don't see SL as being any more "closed" than Twitter, at least not at the level of "open vs. proprietary" - both have APIs (open source clients, really and scripting), both allow users to mash up the content, both allow users to create experiences in or around....the difference is that with one, you have to download something (which also cuts off a large potential user base) but the payoff is that you get access to a wider range of tools. But I do believe we basically agree - I'm not claiming that SL is currently a mass marketing platform. To be mass market you DO need to be light, and you need to be accessible to all. The trade-off for this, in my experience anyways, is that it may be a trillion miles wide but it's still an inch deep. SL doesn't claim to be a trillion miles wide but it DOES claim to be deep. And I believe that "deep" is an increasingly important feature that social media should strive for - widgets and 140 characters only take you so far. Especially as the "end-to-end Internet" takes off, the whole thing will get even wider, with information tags on the buildings around us, but no where to actually sit down with someone and have a conversation (oh, sure, there's REALITY but how boring is THAT?) The question then becomes - if all of the streaming "light information" out there continues to widen, and our social connections become increasingly ephemeral (will I ever see you again? Will you be a comment alone and then you'll wander off to other blogs? Or will I see you at a community forum and create another kind of connection?)...maybe virtual worlds play a part in those deeper connections that are so useful to making sense of a constant ocean of information and opinion, as limiting as the tools might be right now for facilitating it. @John - great and valid points. Although I have to say that the idea that SL is a walled garden has increasingly less traction. Look at the inclusion of HTTP-In, the coming HTML on a prim, and the full ability to integrate what happens inside SL with the rest of the Web. The ability to access part of this content through your iPhone, custom clients, light clients, chat clients and other means increasingly connects SL to the wider web and makes it less like a walled garden and more like a “destination” within a Web of information and social connections.

I really don’t see SL as being any more “closed” than Twitter, at least not at the level of “open vs. proprietary” - both have APIs (open source clients, really and scripting), both allow users to mash up the content, both allow users to create experiences in or around….the difference is that with one, you have to download something (which also cuts off a large potential user base) but the payoff is that you get access to a wider range of tools.

But I do believe we basically agree - I’m not claiming that SL is currently a mass marketing platform. To be mass market you DO need to be light, and you need to be accessible to all. The trade-off for this, in my experience anyways, is that it may be a trillion miles wide but it’s still an inch deep. SL doesn’t claim to be a trillion miles wide but it DOES claim to be deep. And I believe that “deep” is an increasingly important feature that social media should strive for - widgets and 140 characters only take you so far.

Especially as the “end-to-end Internet” takes off, the whole thing will get even wider, with information tags on the buildings around us, but no where to actually sit down with someone and have a conversation (oh, sure, there’s REALITY but how boring is THAT?)

The question then becomes - if all of the streaming “light information” out there continues to widen, and our social connections become increasingly ephemeral (will I ever see you again? Will you be a comment alone and then you’ll wander off to other blogs? Or will I see you at a community forum and create another kind of connection?)…maybe virtual worlds play a part in those deeper connections that are so useful to making sense of a constant ocean of information and opinion, as limiting as the tools might be right now for facilitating it.

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By: John Lopez http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-55929 John Lopez Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:31:51 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-55929 Your point about Twitter only working because of the infrastructure of the web (Blogs, YouTube, etc.) is one that most people are *not* getting about what works and what doesn't. At this point in the history of the web, you have to bring some *serious* firepower to the table to think that a closed service is going to gain traction with the audience today. This does not preclude "proprietary but connected" services where it is easy to link into or out of the service, but anyone trying to recreate the walled service days is fighting an uphill battle. Facebook *was* a walled service, but it became obvious that only allowing .EDU accounts was self limiting. (On the other hand, doing so caused the *initial* spike in use thanks to being the only dedicated "college hook up" service available... so I don't discount walled services in all scenarios.) Today you can link to a facebook account and after a quick signup most people won't notice the "wall" because it is easy to link in both directions. There is something to be said about Second Life's walled garden still being a limiter though. Is it a great "social" tool. Heck yes... in fact, the limit to the number you can bring together at a time even works in *favor* of it because it keeps groups to the size where you still feel like a member of a group and not just a face in the crowd. Travelling the grid with a small group of people is fun, full stop. But there is something to be said about the fact that, unlike blogs or twitter or forums, the experience is transitory... and difficult to share with others who don't meet the "bar" to Second Life. That bar is pretty high in some circles. With the tech crowd, the hardware is pretty much assumed. With educational groups, family members and random business acquaintances it is frankly likely that the hardware will be lacking in at least one regard. That lack causes the experience to be poor. Combined with the problems that no client side hardware can hide (region lag, inventory lag, voice glitches, slow rez times, etc) my attempts to "bring people on board" typically fail. I have no idea how they plan on monetizing Twitter (adding advertising would cause them to make insane amounts in the short run though)... but for bringing *everyone* to the table, it does it right. 140 characters and links out to the actual content means even mobile devices can play effectively in the Twitter social pool. Even with quad cores and a hot video card my experience in Second Life are... less socially effective. Not because the social experience is inferior, just that so many can't play along. True social media has to have a very *low* bar to entry. Your point about Twitter only working because of the infrastructure of the web (Blogs, YouTube, etc.) is one that most people are *not* getting about what works and what doesn’t.

At this point in the history of the web, you have to bring some *serious* firepower to the table to think that a closed service is going to gain traction with the audience today. This does not preclude “proprietary but connected” services where it is easy to link into or out of the service, but anyone trying to recreate the walled service days is fighting an uphill battle.

Facebook *was* a walled service, but it became obvious that only allowing .EDU accounts was self limiting. (On the other hand, doing so caused the *initial* spike in use thanks to being the only dedicated “college hook up” service available… so I don’t discount walled services in all scenarios.) Today you can link to a facebook account and after a quick signup most people won’t notice the “wall” because it is easy to link in both directions.

There is something to be said about Second Life’s walled garden still being a limiter though. Is it a great “social” tool. Heck yes… in fact, the limit to the number you can bring together at a time even works in *favor* of it because it keeps groups to the size where you still feel like a member of a group and not just a face in the crowd. Travelling the grid with a small group of people is fun, full stop.

But there is something to be said about the fact that, unlike blogs or twitter or forums, the experience is transitory… and difficult to share with others who don’t meet the “bar” to Second Life.

That bar is pretty high in some circles. With the tech crowd, the hardware is pretty much assumed. With educational groups, family members and random business acquaintances it is frankly likely that the hardware will be lacking in at least one regard. That lack causes the experience to be poor. Combined with the problems that no client side hardware can hide (region lag, inventory lag, voice glitches, slow rez times, etc) my attempts to “bring people on board” typically fail.

I have no idea how they plan on monetizing Twitter (adding advertising would cause them to make insane amounts in the short run though)… but for bringing *everyone* to the table, it does it right. 140 characters and links out to the actual content means even mobile devices can play effectively in the Twitter social pool. Even with quad cores and a hot video card my experience in Second Life are… less socially effective.

Not because the social experience is inferior, just that so many can’t play along. True social media has to have a very *low* bar to entry.

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-55907 Dusan Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:09:46 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-55907 Well, if he's making a monetary argument I'm really not seeing it. Twitter will be far harder to monetize than SL unless it changes it's model. (Can a "Twitter behind the firewall" be far behind?) Twitter as a source of monetization for the people using it (as compared to the owners) itself seems like something maybe in a larger tool kit of promotion and PR, but as such is just a tool rather than a source of enterprise value on its own. And before I get all the other arguments - I'm not negating the idea of collaborative prototyping, idea-generation and the power of social change blah blah - but then if that's the argument, then we're not talking about hype related to big brand use (which is what the hype about SL was about) we're talking about another kind of hype, in which case we shouldn't look to SL for a comparator. Well, if he’s making a monetary argument I’m really not seeing it. Twitter will be far harder to monetize than SL unless it changes it’s model. (Can a “Twitter behind the firewall” be far behind?)

Twitter as a source of monetization for the people using it (as compared to the owners) itself seems like something maybe in a larger tool kit of promotion and PR, but as such is just a tool rather than a source of enterprise value on its own.

And before I get all the other arguments - I’m not negating the idea of collaborative prototyping, idea-generation and the power of social change blah blah - but then if that’s the argument, then we’re not talking about hype related to big brand use (which is what the hype about SL was about) we’re talking about another kind of hype, in which case we shouldn’t look to SL for a comparator.

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By: Sylvie Noel http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/06/30/can-virtual-worlds-save-social-media/#comment-55902 Sylvie Noel Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:03:13 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1282#comment-55902 If I understood Chris' post, what he's saying can be summed up as: Hey, remember how we made a big fuss over Second Life and all you companies jumped in there thinking you'd make a gazillion dollars and then it turned out you didn't and you were all bummed and stuff? Well, even though we're making just as big a fuss over Twitter and that reminds you of when we made a fuss over SL, don't worry your little heads! We promise that you can make a bazillion dollars with Twitter! And yeah, I agree, the "anti-textual" argument is a weird one. I _think_ he means that there is no persistence (of conversations), but that's just a guess on my part. You might as well say that YouTube is anti-textual too. If I understood Chris’ post, what he’s saying can be summed up as: Hey, remember how we made a big fuss over Second Life and all you companies jumped in there thinking you’d make a gazillion dollars and then it turned out you didn’t and you were all bummed and stuff? Well, even though we’re making just as big a fuss over Twitter and that reminds you of when we made a fuss over SL, don’t worry your little heads! We promise that you can make a bazillion dollars with Twitter!

And yeah, I agree, the “anti-textual” argument is a weird one. I _think_ he means that there is no persistence (of conversations), but that’s just a guess on my part. You might as well say that YouTube is anti-textual too.

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