Comments on: Enterprise, Virtual Worlds and Transparency of Identity http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:50:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Identity and anonymity online « avatar.bara http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-74961 Identity and anonymity online « avatar.bara Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:06:42 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-74961 [...] and anonymity online August 12, 2009 There is a vigourous debate going on at the moment on Dusan Writer’s blog and elsewhere, related to ThinkBalm’s policy on the use of real life name versus anonymous [...] […] and anonymity online August 12, 2009 There is a vigourous debate going on at the moment on Dusan Writer’s blog and elsewhere, related to ThinkBalm’s policy on the use of real life name versus anonymous […]

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By: cube inada http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-74504 cube inada Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:41:34 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-74504 nope- takes some work.. some effort.;) - but remember the "real" DisneyWorld isnt the Main Street Level, its the beige corridors below street level. ;) nope- takes some work.. some effort.;) - but remember the “real” DisneyWorld isnt the Main Street Level, its the beige corridors below street level.

;)

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-74428 Dusan Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:49:40 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-74428 Haha - I'll try Cube....can I teleport? Haha - I’ll try Cube….can I teleport?

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By: cube3 http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-74359 cube3 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:10:08 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-74359 so if you are not your experiences and what you do based on them.? Who are you? Probably not someone worth knowing..;) think about it. amazing how "character" and "Character" are now beyond difference. These blogs have become like every Twilight Zone episode realized. Dusan, you should try to drive down to Silly Valley while youre here. SF is just a "set or fascade" the reality is 30 miles south. Go beyond tourist mode:) so if you are not your experiences and what you do based on them.? Who are you? Probably not someone worth knowing..;)

think about it.

amazing how “character” and “Character” are now beyond difference.

These blogs have become like every Twilight Zone episode realized.

Dusan, you should try to drive down to Silly Valley while youre here. SF is just a “set or fascade” the reality is 30 miles south. Go beyond tourist mode:)

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By: Pais Kidd http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-74167 Pais Kidd Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:31:10 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-74167 This is a long and interesting discussion. I am careful about my identity because we have yet to invent a proper way to handle identity in the realm of the internet. Just to take a tiny bite out of what I am meaning... I see people falling all over themselves to pour their personal info and artifacts into facebook, who then owns this information that before would have required a private investigator to obtain. In this type of identity scenario, the user has limited control. We simply do not have a good model for identity. My RL identity does not need or want attribution for what I do as Pais. I enjoy Pais having his own identity. In a way, his eventual identity to a responsible and legally eligible person is repudiated through the account with LL, however, my trust of them is limited. When I saw Prok's quote of Duke I thought about how I had to adjust to anonymity in SL. I was so used to introducing myself as a package of age, address, where i grew up, my education, my vocation, and so forth. However, all these are simply trappings that may or may not reflect our true selves. The challenge, as I saw it, was to use the avatar and text chat to channel myself without using the crutches of the RL to create that identity and personality for those I met. This is a long and interesting discussion. I am careful about my identity because we have yet to invent a proper way to handle identity in the realm of the internet.

Just to take a tiny bite out of what I am meaning… I see people falling all over themselves to pour their personal info and artifacts into facebook, who then owns this information that before would have required a private investigator to obtain. In this type of identity scenario, the user has limited control.

We simply do not have a good model for identity. My RL identity does not need or want attribution for what I do as Pais. I enjoy Pais having his own identity. In a way, his eventual identity to a responsible and legally eligible person is repudiated through the account with LL, however, my trust of them is limited.

When I saw Prok’s quote of Duke I thought about how I had to adjust to anonymity in SL. I was so used to introducing myself as a package of age, address, where i grew up, my education, my vocation, and so forth. However, all these are simply trappings that may or may not reflect our true selves. The challenge, as I saw it, was to use the avatar and text chat to channel myself without using the crutches of the RL to create that identity and personality for those I met.

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By: Aki Shichiroji http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-72886 Aki Shichiroji Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:08:06 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-72886 i should clarify - RL info of the filer was supposedly revealed upon counter-claim. i should clarify - RL info of the filer was supposedly revealed upon counter-claim.

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By: Aki Shichiroji http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-72883 Aki Shichiroji Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:07:02 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-72883 @Ordinal - As an addendum to your comment about DMCAs disclosing RL info to DMCA filers, I have filed three DMCAs in as many weeks as well as numerous times in the past. Not once ever - much less recently - have I ever received RL info about the people I filed against. I *have* heard of similar issues with XstreetSL, prior to transfer to LL, and in such a case it involved not the RL info of the defendant, but the filer. I do not know if such continues to be the case under the site's new management. @Ordinal - As an addendum to your comment about DMCAs disclosing RL info to DMCA filers, I have filed three DMCAs in as many weeks as well as numerous times in the past. Not once ever - much less recently - have I ever received RL info about the people I filed against.

I *have* heard of similar issues with XstreetSL, prior to transfer to LL, and in such a case it involved not the RL info of the defendant, but the filer. I do not know if such continues to be the case under the site’s new management.

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By: Aki Shichiroji http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-72858 Aki Shichiroji Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:08:12 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-72858 Transparency and trust *must* run hand in hand with working environments of any kind. While I do not have any problems with folks who wish to protect their identities in a personal setting, by and large I have run in to *huge* issues with people who have not been transparent about their identity, availability or trustworthiness. It often leads to work not being done on time, extreme difficulty contacting said individual (it's as easy as not logging in, ignoring email or clicking the invis box, after all), and leads to a *lot* of lost time and opportunity. While identity is not the sole factor towards developing trust it is at the very least something to go on, as Valiant brought up in an earlier comment, towards developing accountability on both sides of the table. The willingness for both parties to trust each other is key in developing a positive and responsible working relationship. By that same token, companies employing individuals who may wish to keep their true identities unpublicized should respect those wishes... but I think you would be hard pressed to find a company seeking to employ workers in any field who refused to provide RL name and contact info. Expecting such would be much like walking up to an office for employment, dropping off a resume with a fake name and address on it, and then calling back later to ensure they'd received a resume from 'SexyBimbo21 Hot'. Yes, we should all be able to work within our 'Second Lives' - but that doesn't mean that all social, governmental and business conventions should be tossed out the window. Yes, some of the 'bigger names' can get away with - and indeed market themselves based on - their avatar identities. But these are few and far between and I can guarantee you that at base level, they MUST deal with real world identity for tax purposes and DO NOT go around claiming they should be addressed by some made up name that holds no legality. Transparency and trust *must* run hand in hand with working environments of any kind.

While I do not have any problems with folks who wish to protect their identities in a personal setting, by and large I have run in to *huge* issues with people who have not been transparent about their identity, availability or trustworthiness. It often leads to work not being done on time, extreme difficulty contacting said individual (it’s as easy as not logging in, ignoring email or clicking the invis box, after all), and leads to a *lot* of lost time and opportunity.

While identity is not the sole factor towards developing trust it is at the very least something to go on, as Valiant brought up in an earlier comment, towards developing accountability on both sides of the table. The willingness for both parties to trust each other is key in developing a positive and responsible working relationship.

By that same token, companies employing individuals who may wish to keep their true identities unpublicized should respect those wishes… but I think you would be hard pressed to find a company seeking to employ workers in any field who refused to provide RL name and contact info. Expecting such would be much like walking up to an office for employment, dropping off a resume with a fake name and address on it, and then calling back later to ensure they’d received a resume from ‘SexyBimbo21 Hot’.

Yes, we should all be able to work within our ‘Second Lives’ - but that doesn’t mean that all social, governmental and business conventions should be tossed out the window.

Yes, some of the ‘bigger names’ can get away with - and indeed market themselves based on - their avatar identities. But these are few and far between and I can guarantee you that at base level, they MUST deal with real world identity for tax purposes and DO NOT go around claiming they should be addressed by some made up name that holds no legality.

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By: Pat Parslow http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-72726 Pat Parslow Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:37:45 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-72726 I am intrigued by Valiant's account of his experience of being in the Lion suit. The following description of putting on the ironed shirt and polished shoes sounds to me like adoption of a 'fake' identity for business purposes. Does the 'real name' (for what they are worth) make any difference if the individual is masking their identity to make a good impression by wearing, say, a suit? In many countries it is relatively trivial to change one's name. Why would there be any greater or lesser transparency if I used my legal name after changing it? I am intrigued by Valiant’s account of his experience of being in the Lion suit. The following description of putting on the ironed shirt and polished shoes sounds to me like adoption of a ‘fake’ identity for business purposes. Does the ‘real name’ (for what they are worth) make any difference if the individual is masking their identity to make a good impression by wearing, say, a suit?
In many countries it is relatively trivial to change one’s name. Why would there be any greater or lesser transparency if I used my legal name after changing it?

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By: cube inada http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/08/07/enterprise-virtual-worlds-and-transparency-of-identity/#comment-72058 cube inada Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:47:07 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1307#comment-72058 there is no CORE idea of SL systems as virtuality. thats should be apparent by what LL is and what they done for a decade. LL- the business,morphs every few months to sustsain itself and self corrects for its existance not as any society, bit only as corporate buisness entity(avatar) sanctioned by the state of CA.usa.. Its expression,its product/service is based on only one ideology of how to use technology. Virtuality- avatarzation SL style is not based on any past social lessons for a balanced society, it is directed from tech lessons for execution of actions and pyramid economics for its monetary survival. The "concept" that SL or virtuality or technology as a whole offers any "new or better" ways of social interactions seems a falicy. NO New forms of trust, respect, power plays/ social outcasting, or human inter-actions have been expressed. For any Second Life act, the truth is its aleady been expressed in real life , and for centuries. The ONLY change technology offers is in its EASE and its WIDENESS and SPEED of affects that allow for the same human individual and GROUP identities to be considered as valid at a particular place or time and within a particular set of experiences learned. I await some evidence that the affect of "avatar identity" leads to a better expression of the human psyche. Until the "shiny of technology" is removed from our latest "offsprings" we wont truly treat them or ourselves fairly. there is no CORE idea of SL systems as virtuality. thats should be apparent by what LL is and what they done for a decade.

LL- the business,morphs every few months to sustsain itself and self corrects for its existance not as any society, bit only as corporate buisness entity(avatar) sanctioned by the state of CA.usa..

Its expression,its product/service is based on only one ideology of how to use technology.

Virtuality- avatarzation SL style is not based on any past social lessons for a balanced society, it is directed from tech lessons for execution of actions and pyramid economics for its monetary survival.

The “concept” that SL or virtuality or technology as a whole offers any “new or better” ways of social interactions seems a falicy.

NO New forms of trust, respect, power plays/ social outcasting, or human inter-actions have been expressed. For any Second Life act, the truth is its aleady been expressed in real life , and for centuries.

The ONLY change technology offers is in its EASE and its WIDENESS and SPEED of affects that allow for the same human individual and GROUP identities to be considered as valid at a particular place or time and within a particular set of experiences learned.

I await some evidence that the affect of “avatar identity” leads to a better expression of the human psyche.

Until the “shiny of technology” is removed from our latest “offsprings” we wont truly treat them or ourselves fairly.

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