Comments on: Digital Entitlement: Our Right to Copy in Virtual Worlds http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:31:33 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Decoding the Blue Mars Terms of Service http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-134697 Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Decoding the Blue Mars Terms of Service Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:00:12 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-134697 [...] the recent (and vibrant) discussions of intellectual property and license rights in Second Life, and this week’s announcements about Blue Mars, I thought [...] [...] the recent (and vibrant) discussions of intellectual property and license rights in Second Life, and this week’s announcements about Blue Mars, I thought [...]

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By: Juanita Deharo http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-134330 Juanita Deharo Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:50:05 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-134330 Dusan- great rant. Right at the beginning Hiro said virtual property doesn't reside on his computer,it resides on someone else's platform. That's not quite right - my sculpt maps, textures, etc reside on my computer. They are portable for me - I can make objects with them on a variety of platforms. That's what I think is copyright - not the object I made. Even if I choose to make the object full perms on whatever grid I make it, I don't, by inference, give the purchaser rights to the components I used to make it. Just because I uploaded my sculpt texture into SL and used it to make a full perm object doesn't make my sculpt map full perm and fair game to be used by anyone. What copybot progs (like Second Inventory) do is copy those files that came from, and are still on, my computer. Once copybot copies them they can be used to make that object or any other object. That's where the problem lies,and why, as a creator, I don't want even my full perm objects going outside the platform in which they were created. As for the 'right' to copy things in case they are lost - Do we allow that in real life? When you buy a watch are you also entitled to another just in case you lose it or it's stolen? Dusan- great rant.
Right at the beginning Hiro said virtual property doesn’t reside on his computer,it resides on someone else’s platform. That’s not quite right – my sculpt maps, textures, etc reside on my computer. They are portable for me – I can make objects with them on a variety of platforms. That’s what I think is copyright – not the object I made. Even if I choose to make the object full perms on whatever grid I make it, I don’t, by inference, give the purchaser rights to the components I used to make it. Just because I uploaded my sculpt texture into SL and used it to make a full perm object doesn’t make my sculpt map full perm and fair game to be used by anyone.
What copybot progs (like Second Inventory) do is copy those files that came from, and are still on, my computer. Once copybot copies them they can be used to make that object or any other object. That’s where the problem lies,and why, as a creator, I don’t want even my full perm objects going outside the platform in which they were created.
As for the ‘right’ to copy things in case they are lost – Do we allow that in real life? When you buy a watch are you also entitled to another just in case you lose it or it’s stolen?

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By: Johnny http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133907 Johnny Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:05:08 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133907 I think that the important point is you can't conceptualise a "right" as some sort of platonic ideal that exists outside of a social framework and the power differentials that exist within that framework. Linden Lab has the "right" to do what it does because it has the power to do what it does, partly for technical reasons but mostly because the system under which we live is structured in such a way as to facilitate the exercise of certain rights, principally property rights, at the expense of other rights, such as the right to a minimum standard of living, real or virtual. Dusan is right when he says that if you complain about the Lindens' policies you are essentially complaining about living in a capitalist society. The conclusion that I draw from that is that it's time to start thinking about other forms of social organisation, both on and off the grid. I think that the important point is you can’t conceptualise a “right” as some sort of platonic ideal that exists outside of a social framework and the power differentials that exist within that framework. Linden Lab has the “right” to do what it does because it has the power to do what it does, partly for technical reasons but mostly because the system under which we live is structured in such a way as to facilitate the exercise of certain rights, principally property rights, at the expense of other rights, such as the right to a minimum standard of living, real or virtual.

Dusan is right when he says that if you complain about the Lindens’ policies you are essentially complaining about living in a capitalist society. The conclusion that I draw from that is that it’s time to start thinking about other forms of social organisation, both on and off the grid.

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By: Lalo Telling http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133882 Lalo Telling Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:34:02 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133882 Just posted: "Entitlement and the Consumerization of Second Life" http://bit.ly/4xGJhS Just posted: “Entitlement and the Consumerization of Second Life” http://bit.ly/4xGJhS

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By: John Lopez http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133487 John Lopez Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:31:05 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133487 Long story short: if you buy bits with constraints on them and then expect to unshackled yourself from the constraints then you are fighting an uphill battle. If we found out LL was bankrupt tomorrow and nobody was willing to purchase them then they could and *would* pull the plug on the servers. Your virtual toys are lost and currently the law gives no recourse to the consumer. This isn't to say that a better solution wouldn't be a good idea and that people who *offer* such a better solution wouldn't have advantages in the marketplace (all other things being equal). Still, it remains the responsibility of the providers to create the infrastructure, the content providers to utilize such infrastructure and the consumers to accept whatever costs such enhanced content comes with. Doing otherwise (such as using copybot type tools) is nothing more or less than copyright infringement. Dress it up anyway you want, it doesn't change the legal impact and possible consequences. The main reason we don't see more consequences in SL is that suing for US$10 of stuff is beyond pointless, especially considering the transnational nature of SL user base. Long story short: if you buy bits with constraints on them and then expect to unshackled yourself from the constraints then you are fighting an uphill battle.

If we found out LL was bankrupt tomorrow and nobody was willing to purchase them then they could and *would* pull the plug on the servers.

Your virtual toys are lost and currently the law gives no recourse to the consumer.

This isn’t to say that a better solution wouldn’t be a good idea and that people who *offer* such a better solution wouldn’t have advantages in the marketplace (all other things being equal). Still, it remains the responsibility of the providers to create the infrastructure, the content providers to utilize such infrastructure and the consumers to accept whatever costs such enhanced content comes with.

Doing otherwise (such as using copybot type tools) is nothing more or less than copyright infringement. Dress it up anyway you want, it doesn’t change the legal impact and possible consequences.

The main reason we don’t see more consequences in SL is that suing for US$10 of stuff is beyond pointless, especially considering the transnational nature of SL user base.

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By: Troy McConaghy http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133443 Troy McConaghy Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:46:27 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133443 There's a web service called backupify.com that can backup all your Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, Google Docs, Flickr photos, and more. Google also has something called the Google Data Liberation Front. It has the goal of letting you take all your data off of Google services easily. For example, you can click one button to get all your Google Docs in one big zip file (or get each one separately if you like). There’s a web service called backupify.com that can backup all your Facebook, Twitter, Gmail, Google Docs, Flickr photos, and more.

Google also has something called the Google Data Liberation Front. It has the goal of letting you take all your data off of Google services easily. For example, you can click one button to get all your Google Docs in one big zip file (or get each one separately if you like).

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133305 Dusan Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:58:35 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133305 jean-ricard - incredibly fascinating ruling, with far-reaching implications. However, I'd propose that the difference is that there's no "platform". If Autodesk was a platform it would have direct bearing on virtual worlds. Take, for example, the idea of selling or transferring avatar accounts. Many game platforms prohibit this, including Second Life. It's not just the software that's being sold "second hand" but its use within a specific domain. I'd propose that in Second Life, the virtual goods may be represented by software which, on its own this ruling suggests a 'buyer' has a right to resell, regardless of the license provisions set out by the seller, but the difference is that the software is also sold within the context of its use within a specific environment, which would mitigate the impact of this ruling. Having said that - I have no doubt that these issues WILL be challenged eventually in court. And maybe a similar ruling will come out for context/platform-specific cases, in which case all bets are off across dozens of industries. jean-ricard – incredibly fascinating ruling, with far-reaching implications.

However, I’d propose that the difference is that there’s no “platform”. If Autodesk was a platform it would have direct bearing on virtual worlds.

Take, for example, the idea of selling or transferring avatar accounts. Many game platforms prohibit this, including Second Life. It’s not just the software that’s being sold “second hand” but its use within a specific domain.

I’d propose that in Second Life, the virtual goods may be represented by software which, on its own this ruling suggests a ‘buyer’ has a right to resell, regardless of the license provisions set out by the seller, but the difference is that the software is also sold within the context of its use within a specific environment, which would mitigate the impact of this ruling.

Having said that – I have no doubt that these issues WILL be challenged eventually in court. And maybe a similar ruling will come out for context/platform-specific cases, in which case all bets are off across dozens of industries.

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By: Quick thought on virtual property « Sapphire Weatherwax http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133304 Quick thought on virtual property « Sapphire Weatherwax Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:55:13 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133304 [...] with another link to be added to the ones I posted yesterday, Dusan Writer’s reply to Botgirl, Entitlement, copybot and virtual worlds. Again, much good discussion in the comments [...] [...] with another link to be added to the ones I posted yesterday, Dusan Writer’s reply to Botgirl, Entitlement, copybot and virtual worlds. Again, much good discussion in the comments [...]

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By: What are people saying? – « SLookable http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133300 What are people saying? – « SLookable Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:10:49 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133300 [...] The Chimney HuntWhat are people saying? -Digital Entitlement: Our Right to Copy in Virtual Worlds. http://bit.ly/59JxRe #secondlifeHere’s a winter London pic from yesterday: [...] [...] The Chimney HuntWhat are people saying? -Digital Entitlement: Our Right to Copy in Virtual Worlds. http://bit.ly/59JxRe #secondlifeHere’s a winter London pic from yesterday: [...]

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By: On content and copying « Whatcha’s Doings http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/15/digital-entitlement-our-right-to-copy-in-virtual-worlds/comment-page-1/#comment-133297 On content and copying « Whatcha’s Doings Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:02:35 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1664#comment-133297 [...] content and copying Interesting post over at Dusan Writer’s blog about content, licensing and [...] [...] content and copying Interesting post over at Dusan Writer’s blog about content, licensing and [...]

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