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	<title>Comments on: MMMMMMusic in Second Life</title>
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	<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/</link>
	<description>Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity.</description>
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		<title>By: Zak Claxton</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133828</link>
		<dc:creator>Zak Claxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133828</guid>
		<description>Music will never be the killer app in SL that was envisioned awhile back. Don&#039;t get me wrong; it has every potential to be one of the biggest draws for SL or any virtual platform. But the vast majority of artists performing in SL are doing covers. Even artists like me who spend most of their shows doing originals throw in cover tunes from time to time. And the fact is that until there&#039;s a clear cut policy on who will accept the culpability of these performances happening without anyone paying performance license fees to organizations like BMI and ASCAP, there&#039;s no way in hell that Linden Lab will get behind music in a way that will pull new people into SL.

I love the SL music scene, which is why I&#039;ve continued to be a part of it for three years of live performances on a regular basis. But people shouldn&#039;t continue to kid themselves that things will go on forever in the way they have been. With the amount of songs by other artists being performed every single day (hundreds? thousands?), the actual licensing cost would be astronomical. Linden Lab will not pony up to pay that bill, and the artists and venues are already in a money-losing situation as it stands... they&#039;re certainly not going to pay licensing fees themselves in addition to tier, stream rental, music equipment purchase and upkeep costs, and so on.

I think the best we can hope for is that it continues on the path it current has gone. A &quot;breakout star&quot; might end up being the worst thing possible for the SL music scene as a whole, as it will just call attention to the topics that have continued to be pushed under the rug. I don&#039;t blame the platform for this: LL certainly didn&#039;t envision this as being a challenge for them when they were developing SL. But you can&#039;t have the cake (&quot;music is a killer app!&quot;) and eat it too. It&#039;ll be interesting to see what happens when Linden&#039;s hand is inevitable forced to the point they&#039;ll need to make a policy statement or a TOS addendum about the legality of playing cover songs in SL. If you don&#039;t think that will ever happen, I&#039;ve got a L$1 bet that says you&#039;re mistaken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Music will never be the killer app in SL that was envisioned awhile back. Don&#8217;t get me wrong; it has every potential to be one of the biggest draws for SL or any virtual platform. But the vast majority of artists performing in SL are doing covers. Even artists like me who spend most of their shows doing originals throw in cover tunes from time to time. And the fact is that until there&#8217;s a clear cut policy on who will accept the culpability of these performances happening without anyone paying performance license fees to organizations like BMI and ASCAP, there&#8217;s no way in hell that Linden Lab will get behind music in a way that will pull new people into SL.</p>
<p>I love the SL music scene, which is why I&#8217;ve continued to be a part of it for three years of live performances on a regular basis. But people shouldn&#8217;t continue to kid themselves that things will go on forever in the way they have been. With the amount of songs by other artists being performed every single day (hundreds? thousands?), the actual licensing cost would be astronomical. Linden Lab will not pony up to pay that bill, and the artists and venues are already in a money-losing situation as it stands&#8230; they&#8217;re certainly not going to pay licensing fees themselves in addition to tier, stream rental, music equipment purchase and upkeep costs, and so on.</p>
<p>I think the best we can hope for is that it continues on the path it current has gone. A &#8220;breakout star&#8221; might end up being the worst thing possible for the SL music scene as a whole, as it will just call attention to the topics that have continued to be pushed under the rug. I don&#8217;t blame the platform for this: LL certainly didn&#8217;t envision this as being a challenge for them when they were developing SL. But you can&#8217;t have the cake (&#8220;music is a killer app!&#8221;) and eat it too. It&#8217;ll be interesting to see what happens when Linden&#8217;s hand is inevitable forced to the point they&#8217;ll need to make a policy statement or a TOS addendum about the legality of playing cover songs in SL. If you don&#8217;t think that will ever happen, I&#8217;ve got a L$1 bet that says you&#8217;re mistaken.</p>
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		<title>By: Doubledown Tandino</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133712</link>
		<dc:creator>Doubledown Tandino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133712</guid>
		<description>@ Blue Mars comments....

After performing in NINE virtual worlds... that&#039;s right... NINE...  only Active Worlds is the one that could accommodate a large capacity/attendance, not Blue Mars.

Second Life, if done right, can accommodate as many as wanted, as long as you&#039;re willing to shell out the money for more sims.   Longrange (aka members of Orbital) performed live in SL years ago, and used 12 sims.  It worked.

I&#039;m sorry, but I get frustrated, or annoyed, when they blame the platform, any platform for hurdles or limitations, that in essence are only perceptions.  I&#039;ve performed live in Second Life for close to four years now.  I have also tried ALL of the other platforms to perform in.   All I can say is:  It&#039;s not the platform causing the problems for music performance, and it&#039;s not Linden Lab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Blue Mars comments&#8230;.</p>
<p>After performing in NINE virtual worlds&#8230; that&#8217;s right&#8230; NINE&#8230;  only Active Worlds is the one that could accommodate a large capacity/attendance, not Blue Mars.</p>
<p>Second Life, if done right, can accommodate as many as wanted, as long as you&#8217;re willing to shell out the money for more sims.   Longrange (aka members of Orbital) performed live in SL years ago, and used 12 sims.  It worked.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but I get frustrated, or annoyed, when they blame the platform, any platform for hurdles or limitations, that in essence are only perceptions.  I&#8217;ve performed live in Second Life for close to four years now.  I have also tried ALL of the other platforms to perform in.   All I can say is:  It&#8217;s not the platform causing the problems for music performance, and it&#8217;s not Linden Lab.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy McConaghy</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133562</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy McConaghy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133562</guid>
		<description>Metanomics has a nice solution to accommodating large audiences... I wonder if you know anybody involved with that show...  Maybe they could help Skye Galaxy?  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metanomics has a nice solution to accommodating large audiences&#8230; I wonder if you know anybody involved with that show&#8230;  Maybe they could help Skye Galaxy?  <img src='http://dusanwriter.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cel Edman</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133555</link>
		<dc:creator>Cel Edman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133555</guid>
		<description>Nice song and voice.

On avatar audience of 200 and more people together in one (small) space; world of warcraft, eve-online, lord of the rings online crumbles down to lag, (crashing servers) or a 1-fps dia show is my previous experience. (I guess a slow computer doesn&#039;t help as well)

Wondering what virtual-enviroment scores best and/or is build around large crowds performance in the same area/town-square.
Where people can walk, talk/type. And have like there personal avatar style and cloths/equipment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice song and voice.</p>
<p>On avatar audience of 200 and more people together in one (small) space; world of warcraft, eve-online, lord of the rings online crumbles down to lag, (crashing servers) or a 1-fps dia show is my previous experience. (I guess a slow computer doesn&#8217;t help as well)</p>
<p>Wondering what virtual-enviroment scores best and/or is build around large crowds performance in the same area/town-square.<br />
Where people can walk, talk/type. And have like there personal avatar style and cloths/equipment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dusan</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133552</link>
		<dc:creator>Dusan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133552</guid>
		<description>I think Blue Mars has great potential. However, the way they&#039;re able to support so many users is by downloading the world ahead of entering it. For myself, on a very very fast connection, this took 45 minutes to install 4 regions. If you need to spend 10 minutes installing the equivalent of a few sims as you move from &#039;world to world&#039; will the waiting negate the effect of having the potential for more avatars? What I think will happen is that like the bar for content creation in Blue Mars it will also be raised for musicians - it won&#039;t be sufficient for &#039;unknowns&#039; to plug in their mics and perform - it will need to be a compelling enough draw (i.e. a &#039;bigger name&#039;) for people to want to spend the time downloading all that content before they can even get in.

I&#039;m a big believer in Blue Mars - it&#039;s a professional MMO developer platform, basically, where you can create your own world and not have to worry about hosting or &#039;back-end stuff&#039;. This does NOT, however, make it a de facto community nor one in which you&#039;ll easily hop from world to world as the ecosystem builds out.

They have also not once met their stated deadlines for any kind of release and have so far been 6 - 12 months behind on what they originally estimated, which doesn&#039;t instill tons of confidence, but it&#039;s very early days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Blue Mars has great potential. However, the way they&#8217;re able to support so many users is by downloading the world ahead of entering it. For myself, on a very very fast connection, this took 45 minutes to install 4 regions. If you need to spend 10 minutes installing the equivalent of a few sims as you move from &#8216;world to world&#8217; will the waiting negate the effect of having the potential for more avatars? What I think will happen is that like the bar for content creation in Blue Mars it will also be raised for musicians &#8211; it won&#8217;t be sufficient for &#8216;unknowns&#8217; to plug in their mics and perform &#8211; it will need to be a compelling enough draw (i.e. a &#8216;bigger name&#8217;) for people to want to spend the time downloading all that content before they can even get in.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a big believer in Blue Mars &#8211; it&#8217;s a professional MMO developer platform, basically, where you can create your own world and not have to worry about hosting or &#8216;back-end stuff&#8217;. This does NOT, however, make it a de facto community nor one in which you&#8217;ll easily hop from world to world as the ecosystem builds out.</p>
<p>They have also not once met their stated deadlines for any kind of release and have so far been 6 &#8211; 12 months behind on what they originally estimated, which doesn&#8217;t instill tons of confidence, but it&#8217;s very early days.</p>
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		<title>By: Doubledown Tandino</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133551</link>
		<dc:creator>Doubledown Tandino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133551</guid>
		<description>I want to comment on a lot of various things here...
but I won&#039;t.

Instead, I recommend checking out the years of piled up blog posts from SL musicians and performers.  Crap Mariner&#039;s blog, Grace&#039;s blog, my blog, Slim Warrior&#039;s various comments on forums, Zak Claxton&#039;s blog, many others.
The music blogs regarding Second Life (and virtual worlds) cover many topics with many varied opinions in regards to music in Second Life.

Opinions are like Avatars... everyone&#039;s got at least one, and most people have a lot.

PS, Hamlet, were you paid to post about Skye Galaxy?  Since there was no disclosure, I&#039;m assuming you or Willow weren&#039;t.  But someone doesn&#039;t just pop into SL, and within 2 months, have a full on massive following, videos, press releases, etc without money buying it.

PPS, I&#039;m mildly offended at the NWN title: &quot;...Destined to Become Second Life&#039;s First Breakout Popstar&quot;  ...it&#039;s as if the past 4 years of breakout performers were overlooked because someone woos the ladies with a Coldplay style melody and a cute avatar.   Frogg &amp; Jaycatt, Flaming Moe, Cylindrian Rudabaga, Slim Warrior, Zak Claxton, Max Kleene, The Poppinjays, Dexter Ihnen, Bluez Preacher Man, Winston Ackland, Von Johin and so many more... there are so many breakout music artists from SL history that made it.   To me, its the dedication and commitment one puts into continuing to perform for the SL community that makes the SL performer... not a press kit and a bunch of ladies swooning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to comment on a lot of various things here&#8230;<br />
but I won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Instead, I recommend checking out the years of piled up blog posts from SL musicians and performers.  Crap Mariner&#8217;s blog, Grace&#8217;s blog, my blog, Slim Warrior&#8217;s various comments on forums, Zak Claxton&#8217;s blog, many others.<br />
The music blogs regarding Second Life (and virtual worlds) cover many topics with many varied opinions in regards to music in Second Life.</p>
<p>Opinions are like Avatars&#8230; everyone&#8217;s got at least one, and most people have a lot.</p>
<p>PS, Hamlet, were you paid to post about Skye Galaxy?  Since there was no disclosure, I&#8217;m assuming you or Willow weren&#8217;t.  But someone doesn&#8217;t just pop into SL, and within 2 months, have a full on massive following, videos, press releases, etc without money buying it.</p>
<p>PPS, I&#8217;m mildly offended at the NWN title: &#8220;&#8230;Destined to Become Second Life&#8217;s First Breakout Popstar&#8221;  &#8230;it&#8217;s as if the past 4 years of breakout performers were overlooked because someone woos the ladies with a Coldplay style melody and a cute avatar.   Frogg &amp; Jaycatt, Flaming Moe, Cylindrian Rudabaga, Slim Warrior, Zak Claxton, Max Kleene, The Poppinjays, Dexter Ihnen, Bluez Preacher Man, Winston Ackland, Von Johin and so many more&#8230; there are so many breakout music artists from SL history that made it.   To me, its the dedication and commitment one puts into continuing to perform for the SL community that makes the SL performer&#8230; not a press kit and a bunch of ladies swooning.</p>
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		<title>By: Emilly Orr</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133517</link>
		<dc:creator>Emilly Orr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133517</guid>
		<description>I think live music needs as much support from the venue as from the public. I remember when Tribute Island was on the grid, the owner held a summer series--two to three hours split between live musical performances, and streamed music tailored around celebration of musical themes, or musicians themselves.

Some great SL musicians turned up to perform, and the island was frequently packed for their performances, which in turn generated interest in the island, which in turn resulted in repeat shows and more people spreading the word to come.

All of which was well and good, but on occasion, the stream dropped, due to lag or technical issues; lag &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; a problem; even by upping the sim limits to max avatars, there were folks who couldn&#039;t come in.

While Blue Mars is still out of my personal reach, technologically speaking, it does seem as if many SL residents are at the least checking out the opportunities, if not leaving SL for it. And if the engine even works half as well as promised...that&#039;s an increase in the avatar audience of 450 at the &lt;i&gt;low&lt;/i&gt; end, and thousands at the high end. 

If the point of the game is to increase the number of ears on your work--ears that may then later buy your work, if recorded--then more &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; better and SL can&#039;t begin to compete.

If the point is to reinforce social connection and involve live performance in the process, then SL&#039;s doing fine, but needs to consider more &#039;off-site&#039; action for major concerts--the live performance at W stage, then &#039;listening centers&#039; on X, Y, and Z sims where folks can &#039;tune in&#039;, so to speak, without further crowding the W stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think live music needs as much support from the venue as from the public. I remember when Tribute Island was on the grid, the owner held a summer series&#8211;two to three hours split between live musical performances, and streamed music tailored around celebration of musical themes, or musicians themselves.</p>
<p>Some great SL musicians turned up to perform, and the island was frequently packed for their performances, which in turn generated interest in the island, which in turn resulted in repeat shows and more people spreading the word to come.</p>
<p>All of which was well and good, but on occasion, the stream dropped, due to lag or technical issues; lag <i>was</i> a problem; even by upping the sim limits to max avatars, there were folks who couldn&#8217;t come in.</p>
<p>While Blue Mars is still out of my personal reach, technologically speaking, it does seem as if many SL residents are at the least checking out the opportunities, if not leaving SL for it. And if the engine even works half as well as promised&#8230;that&#8217;s an increase in the avatar audience of 450 at the <i>low</i> end, and thousands at the high end. </p>
<p>If the point of the game is to increase the number of ears on your work&#8211;ears that may then later buy your work, if recorded&#8211;then more <i>is</i> better and SL can&#8217;t begin to compete.</p>
<p>If the point is to reinforce social connection and involve live performance in the process, then SL&#8217;s doing fine, but needs to consider more &#8216;off-site&#8217; action for major concerts&#8211;the live performance at W stage, then &#8216;listening centers&#8217; on X, Y, and Z sims where folks can &#8216;tune in&#8217;, so to speak, without further crowding the W stage.</p>
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		<title>By: cube</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133480</link>
		<dc:creator>cube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133480</guid>
		<description>i worked with some who produced interative immersive 3d music videos back in 2001. I did some more in 2003. The mix of 3d rt media, IS one of the value adds that the music biz keeps missing...

What one has to ask is how blind can blind be when your cult hero &quot;Cory O.&quot; goes to BMI and theres NO by product of 3d/ or vr worlds tech offered as any &quot;product/service change&quot; ...?


mainstream still waits... but of course it took a &quot;rock band&quot; to get the beatles digital;)


If one could fill a room with a few hundred a night and do 3 weekend shows..., one could make a living....
but it depends on what &quot;cut&quot; the &quot;room owner&quot; demands.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i worked with some who produced interative immersive 3d music videos back in 2001. I did some more in 2003. The mix of 3d rt media, IS one of the value adds that the music biz keeps missing&#8230;</p>
<p>What one has to ask is how blind can blind be when your cult hero &#8220;Cory O.&#8221; goes to BMI and theres NO by product of 3d/ or vr worlds tech offered as any &#8220;product/service change&#8221; &#8230;?</p>
<p>mainstream still waits&#8230; but of course it took a &#8220;rock band&#8221; to get the beatles digital;)</p>
<p>If one could fill a room with a few hundred a night and do 3 weekend shows&#8230;, one could make a living&#8230;.<br />
but it depends on what &#8220;cut&#8221; the &#8220;room owner&#8221; demands&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Toxic Menges</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133463</link>
		<dc:creator>Toxic Menges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133463</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking to my vid Dusan, I agree that the music speaks for itself in this piece. There is a place for machinima to promote music and indeed any type of performance in Second Life. 

If someone making a machinima to record a live gig or indeed do a music video within a virtual world for a performer who only performs virtually, and that results in someone deciding to try out virtual worlds, then reportage like this can only be a good thing. 

There is only so many ways in which a film maker can record a live gig, either in the real world - I hope that the way I give images to great musical talent does them justice in some way. 

This is why we need the showcase back on the secondlife.com homepage, and also why the music community need to push their craft from behind the walled gardens of virtual worlds. The people they play to are already fans - in order for music in ANY virtual world to grow, we need to get the message out that performers like this exist. 

The music scene in Second Life should be one of the main thrusts of external marketing for Linden Lab</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking to my vid Dusan, I agree that the music speaks for itself in this piece. There is a place for machinima to promote music and indeed any type of performance in Second Life. </p>
<p>If someone making a machinima to record a live gig or indeed do a music video within a virtual world for a performer who only performs virtually, and that results in someone deciding to try out virtual worlds, then reportage like this can only be a good thing. </p>
<p>There is only so many ways in which a film maker can record a live gig, either in the real world &#8211; I hope that the way I give images to great musical talent does them justice in some way. </p>
<p>This is why we need the showcase back on the secondlife.com homepage, and also why the music community need to push their craft from behind the walled gardens of virtual worlds. The people they play to are already fans &#8211; in order for music in ANY virtual world to grow, we need to get the message out that performers like this exist. </p>
<p>The music scene in Second Life should be one of the main thrusts of external marketing for Linden Lab</p>
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		<title>By: Hamlet Au</title>
		<link>http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/12/16/mmmmmmusic-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-133457</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamlet Au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1670#comment-133457</guid>
		<description>Dusan, Willow Caldera wrote the Skye review, and the video&#039;s by Toxic Menges, I can only take credit for editing it (albeit lightly, Willow&#039;s a good writer!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dusan, Willow Caldera wrote the Skye review, and the video&#8217;s by Toxic Menges, I can only take credit for editing it (albeit lightly, Willow&#8217;s a good writer!)</p>
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