Comments on: Second Life and the Cultural Revolution (II) http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:52:03 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: SL CHick http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-149019 SL CHick Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:43:15 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-149019 Absolutely correct, Nika. Just read an assortment of random avatar profiles while inworld. What percentage reveal their RL identity, in any degree? Less than 1%? Most people in SL do NOT want their RL and SL integrated unless they choose to reveal that information to a few trusted friends. Even if LL makes this an option, it will become de facto mandatory through peer pressure from a generation of newbies raised to think uploading videos of their boel movements to YouTube is normal behavior. And what if hackers steal your credit card or bank account through SL's Facebook/MySapce integration? What happens when the first member of a sexual minority is attacked, even murdered in RL after his/her avatar is outed in SL? Are these very real possibilities worth the pipedream of"social media integration"? How many of the Lindens can't really grasp the idea that creative anarchy, personal anonymity, and remodeling identity is what attracted most of us to SL in the first place. Any plan that turns that around in favor of augmented social media is nothing short of a betrayal of the majority of the current residents of SL, aka LL's current customer base, and will offer many of us no other option by to cancel our accounts. Is LL really ready for that event, could they survive it? I think it will in fact relegate LL to the ash heap of digital history, and be studied in business classes as a classic case of corporate failure through hubris. Absolutely correct, Nika. Just read an assortment of random avatar profiles while inworld. What percentage reveal their RL identity, in any degree? Less than 1%? Most people in SL do NOT want their RL and SL integrated unless they choose to reveal that information to a few trusted friends. Even if LL makes this an option, it will become de facto mandatory through peer pressure from a generation of newbies raised to think uploading videos of their boel movements to YouTube is normal behavior. And what if hackers steal your credit card or bank account through SL’s Facebook/MySapce integration? What happens when the first member of a sexual minority is attacked, even murdered in RL after his/her avatar is outed in SL? Are these very real possibilities worth the pipedream of”social media integration”? How many of the Lindens can’t really grasp the idea that creative anarchy, personal anonymity, and remodeling identity is what attracted most of us to SL in the first place. Any plan that turns that around in favor of augmented social media is nothing short of a betrayal of the majority of the current residents of SL, aka LL’s current customer base, and will offer many of us no other option by to cancel our accounts. Is LL really ready for that event, could they survive it? I think it will in fact relegate LL to the ash heap of digital history, and be studied in business classes as a classic case of corporate failure through hubris.

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By: Leondra http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148662 Leondra Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:22:26 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148662 soooooo much to digest. There's so many great thoughts/arguments/points of view. I have been saying for quite some time, this is not a game, but a media. staying tuned soooooo much to digest.
There’s so many great thoughts/arguments/points of view.

I have been saying for quite some time, this is not a game, but a media.

staying tuned

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By: Nika Talaj http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148609 Nika Talaj Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:42:51 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148609 I, too, am deeply concerned about the consequences of LL facilitating linking avatar identities to real identities. SL right now is a powerful tool for personal re-invention. Most avatars have nothing in their first life tab; they are born into SL with no personal history, no baggage of family or coworkers, but an adult's life experience. What an opportunity to explore! What a chance to finally become that 'nice guy' you always thought you were, to remake your body image, to try to start a business without your family laughing at you! To meet people without them pitying your physical handicap! To lose yourself in a fantasy where you are beautiful, where $50 makes you rich! This ability to lose one's current self is what has lured residents away from their televisions into SL, night after night. LL thinks our current SL culture can co-exist with members who are after a strictly augmentationist 3D experience, who will use SL to shop in 3D or play simultaneously in a 3D band with musicians all over the globe or who attend conferences. Where everyone may be beautiful but the really cool AVs look like their typists, where RL info is always on your linked *social network of choice* profile. They may be right. But I think the current SL culture is a very delicate thing, and will evaporate when a flood of new RL-oriented residents begins to shun those who do not expose their RL identities. After all, those anonymous players could be anyone ... they could be scam artists, sex criminals ... I think any avatar that does not expose their RL identity will come to be regarded with suspicion. So, all those anonymous avatars who have nothing particular to hide except that they wanted to escape themselves will quietly melt away, and SL will have lost the one thing that made people put down their remote controls. And then, I suppose, LL employees will finally be comfortable within SL. LL's executives may then have to accept a fire sale merger with Facebook or IBM, and they may never understand what went wrong. I, too, am deeply concerned about the consequences of LL facilitating linking avatar identities to real identities.

SL right now is a powerful tool for personal re-invention. Most avatars have nothing in their first life tab; they are born into SL with no personal history, no baggage of family or coworkers, but an adult’s life experience. What an opportunity to explore! What a chance to finally become that ‘nice guy’ you always thought you were, to remake your body image, to try to start a business without your family laughing at you! To meet people without them pitying your physical handicap! To lose yourself in a fantasy where you are beautiful, where $50 makes you rich!

This ability to lose one’s current self is what has lured residents away from their televisions into SL, night after night.

LL thinks our current SL culture can co-exist with members who are after a strictly augmentationist 3D experience, who will use SL to shop in 3D or play simultaneously in a 3D band with musicians all over the globe or who attend conferences. Where everyone may be beautiful but the really cool AVs look like their typists, where RL info is always on your linked *social network of choice* profile. They may be right.

But I think the current SL culture is a very delicate thing, and will evaporate when a flood of new RL-oriented residents begins to shun those who do not expose their RL identities. After all, those anonymous players could be anyone … they could be scam artists, sex criminals … I think any avatar that does not expose their RL identity will come to be regarded with suspicion.

So, all those anonymous avatars who have nothing particular to hide except that they wanted to escape themselves will quietly melt away, and SL will have lost the one thing that made people put down their remote controls.

And then, I suppose, LL employees will finally be comfortable within SL. LL’s executives may then have to accept a fire sale merger with Facebook or IBM, and they may never understand what went wrong.

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By: 34322345432 http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148599 34322345432 Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:24:32 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148599 Selling content on sites like Turbosquid is a little different as they're much more transparent. i.e everybody can see what everybody else is selling. In Second Life we can sell items in world and so it's possible for somebody who doesn't actually hang out in SL (pro content creator) to be unaware that Jimmy333 Monkeynuts has been selling copies like hotcakes while the creator's items listed on XStreet haven't sold at all. and yep, I'm aware of mesh compression techniques and I'm also aware of how sensitive 3D models can be to compression. Even the lightest compression methods can turn a 3D model and its normal maps into a fugly mess. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.. Thanks the info though. It's nice to know mesh support is done and that LL is considering other storage methods. Selling content on sites like Turbosquid is a little different as they’re much more transparent. i.e everybody can see what everybody else is selling.

In Second Life we can sell items in world and so it’s possible for somebody who doesn’t actually hang out in SL (pro content creator) to be unaware that Jimmy333 Monkeynuts has been selling copies like hotcakes while the creator’s items listed on XStreet haven’t sold at all.

and yep, I’m aware of mesh compression techniques and I’m also aware of how sensitive 3D models can be to compression. Even the lightest compression methods can turn a 3D model and its normal maps into a fugly mess.

But I guess we’ll just have to wait and see..

Thanks the info though. It’s nice to know mesh support is done and that LL is considering other storage methods.

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148597 Dusan Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:31:36 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148597 @ Frank and Tinsel - mesh will NOT replace existing tools, no worries on that score. @ Frank and Tinsel – mesh will NOT replace existing tools, no worries on that score.

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By: Dusan http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148596 Dusan Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:31:02 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148596 @342 or whatever your name is - the Lab has already coded mesh and it's being tested now. As I understand it, it will include multiple textures but I'm not sure about normals - anyone know? As well, it will translate mesh into a certain number of vertices...as I understand it, vertex limits is how they manage the network issues. Textures will be moved into the cloud over time. This is already supported in Snowglobe and the SL Map function - so, object textures will eventually be pulled from external Web sources rather than the Lab's asset servers. This could help reduce load times on the texture side of things although right now it doesn't support progressive texture loading. Finally, if they really are able to pull off what they say they're working on, which is more intelligent caching of content, you can also reduce loads for sims you've been to before, and I understand that they're trying to push the assets closer to the simulator. For those outside SL, I'm not sure copybot is the big issue. They're used to Turbosquid and things like that or Google Warehouse. This will be like an added revenue stream for those already selling in Content Paradise where you have the risk of purchased objects being swapped and sold anyways. At least in SL you've ported your stuff into something with a known IP and enforcement regime. On animations - not sure, but really good question. Cube - yup, history repeats itself, I suppose it's just better to be on the right side of the next wave. @342 or whatever your name is – the Lab has already coded mesh and it’s being tested now. As I understand it, it will include multiple textures but I’m not sure about normals – anyone know?

As well, it will translate mesh into a certain number of vertices…as I understand it, vertex limits is how they manage the network issues.

Textures will be moved into the cloud over time. This is already supported in Snowglobe and the SL Map function – so, object textures will eventually be pulled from external Web sources rather than the Lab’s asset servers. This could help reduce load times on the texture side of things although right now it doesn’t support progressive texture loading.

Finally, if they really are able to pull off what they say they’re working on, which is more intelligent caching of content, you can also reduce loads for sims you’ve been to before, and I understand that they’re trying to push the assets closer to the simulator.

For those outside SL, I’m not sure copybot is the big issue. They’re used to Turbosquid and things like that or Google Warehouse. This will be like an added revenue stream for those already selling in Content Paradise where you have the risk of purchased objects being swapped and sold anyways. At least in SL you’ve ported your stuff into something with a known IP and enforcement regime.

On animations – not sure, but really good question.

Cube – yup, history repeats itself, I suppose it’s just better to be on the right side of the next wave.

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By: 34322345432 http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148592 34322345432 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:27:35 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148592 Mesh support is more likely to appeal to outsiders that don't really care for SL but enjoy 3D modeling in general. It's an opportunity for them to make some cash on the side. But because of copybot I'm sure they're gonna be quite tentative at first and will just dip a toe in (upload a single model) to test the waters. If they make money then they'll upload more models. A concern I have is whether llNet can deliver meshes fast enough. Mesh storage sizes are quite large, especially when you add things like normal maps. And in this day and age normal maps will be essential if LL wants to attract pro modelers. But it remains to be seen whether LL is going to support user created normal maps. The youtube mesh preview says not.. LL may have already decided that their network can't handle meshes and so now they're now waiting for their engineers to fix things. Mesh support may be fully coded and waiting.. For me it's not so much mesh support in itself that is going to bring Second Life up to date, but rather it's the animation that can eventually be added to meshes. It'll mean no more silly things like animals with absurd looking prim legs. :) But again, animation just adds further to the bandwidth requirements of meshes. Maybe a streaming 3D world just isn't suitable for mesh support?. Mesh support is more likely to appeal to outsiders that don’t really care for SL but enjoy 3D modeling in general. It’s an opportunity for them to make some cash on the side. But because of copybot I’m sure they’re gonna be quite tentative at first and will just dip a toe in (upload a single model) to test the waters. If they make money then they’ll upload more models.

A concern I have is whether llNet can deliver meshes fast enough. Mesh storage sizes are quite large, especially when you add things like normal maps. And in this day and age normal maps will be essential if LL wants to attract pro modelers. But it remains to be seen whether LL is going to support user created normal maps. The youtube mesh preview says not..

LL may have already decided that their network can’t handle meshes and so now they’re now waiting for their engineers to fix things. Mesh support may be fully coded and waiting..

For me it’s not so much mesh support in itself that is going to bring Second Life up to date, but rather it’s the animation that can eventually be added to meshes. It’ll mean no more silly things like animals with absurd looking prim legs. :)

But again, animation just adds further to the bandwidth requirements of meshes.

Maybe a streaming 3D world just isn’t suitable for mesh support?.

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By: cube http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148524 cube Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:27:40 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148524 meshes, apis, first hrs..etc.. none of this will attract large media corporations or pro content developers... they all make a "living " off of content ownership and its value... Why would SONY, FOX, ORANGE, AOL, or CBS come back? HBO?... whats changed.. ah.. 1.0 is now called 2.0-REVOLUTION! well that should be enough....;) Theyll hope that noone remebers the Unlicensed use of AVATAR banners FROM LL in 6 months. and pay others like wallace and hamlet to keep calling it Sl 2.0 D in press releases and those media giants like AOl, CBS, HBO, ORange, SONY and FOX will all return to pay for maya built office buildings and empty islands of old music videos ?. This all sound much better than them making flash games or AR trinkets and hireing there own bloggers to call them "virtual worlds" and to link them to facebook pages........ They be back in SL with millions of new users because we moved some interface buttons around, and allowed for mass google warehouse ip import violations of content they most likely own.... well maybe thats exactly what will happen since in a year, all all failures and un tractionalble efforts will never have happened and everthing will be shiny and meta new again.. and toplisted on google and wikis. meshes, apis, first hrs..etc..

none of this will attract large media corporations or pro content developers…

they all make a “living ” off of content ownership and its value…

Why would SONY, FOX, ORANGE, AOL, or CBS come back?
HBO?…

whats changed.. ah.. 1.0 is now called 2.0-REVOLUTION!

well that should be enough….;)

Theyll hope that noone remebers the Unlicensed use of AVATAR banners FROM LL in 6 months.
and pay others like wallace and hamlet to keep calling it Sl 2.0 D in press releases and those media giants like AOl, CBS, HBO, ORange, SONY and FOX will all return to pay for maya built office buildings and empty islands of old music videos ?.

This all sound much better than them making flash games or AR trinkets and hireing there own bloggers to call them “virtual worlds” and to link them to facebook pages……..

They be back in SL with millions of new users because we moved some interface buttons around, and allowed for mass google warehouse ip import violations of content they most likely own….

well maybe thats exactly what will happen since in a year, all all failures and un tractionalble efforts will never have happened and everthing will be shiny and meta new again..

and toplisted on google and wikis.

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By: HatHead Rickenbacker http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148496 HatHead Rickenbacker Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:18:53 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148496 If there is a 2.0 viewer for visiting and another, more advanced viewer for building then new user orientation will become a little more problematic to deliver. If there is a 2.0 viewer for visiting and another, more advanced viewer for building then new user orientation will become a little more problematic to deliver.

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By: Frank Schism http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/01/15/second-life-and-the-cultural-revolution-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-148467 Frank Schism Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:56:30 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=1764#comment-148467 I think the key here, regarding mesh support, will be if it's IN ADDITION TO existing building tools, rather than a replacement of them. If mesh is an additional tool--just as sculpties were when they were introduced--this would be a huge improvement for SL. Of course, none of this matters if LL can't improve the first-hour (and second- and third) experience for new users. Hopefully the so-called 2.0 viewer will help with that anyway. I think the key here, regarding mesh support, will be if it’s IN ADDITION TO existing building tools, rather than a replacement of them.

If mesh is an additional tool–just as sculpties were when they were introduced–this would be a huge improvement for SL.

Of course, none of this matters if LL can’t improve the first-hour (and second- and third) experience for new users. Hopefully the so-called 2.0 viewer will help with that anyway.

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