Comments on: Creativity and Mental Health: Do Your Dopamine Levels Explain Why You’re in Second Life? http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Mon, 24 May 2010 19:25:06 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Debbie Trilling http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-197887 Debbie Trilling Mon, 24 May 2010 11:49:33 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-197887 @ soror nishi //*** This unconscious is the part that creative people can ‘access’… and it’s the part that ‘overwhelms’ people with mental illness //*** This reminds me of a conversation, perhaps anecdotal, reported to have occurred between James Joyce and Carl Jung, where Joyce is trying to convince himself that his daughter is not schizophrenic: Joyce: "After all, I do the same sorts of things with language myself." Jung: "You are diving, but she is sinking." As Anton Wilson comments on this, "all of us who write anything that goes below the surface of naturalism can understand Joyce's scepticism. We never know for sure whether we're diving or just sinking." Interesting blog and follow-on comments. @ soror nishi

//***

This unconscious is the part that creative people can ‘access’… and it’s the part that ‘overwhelms’ people with mental illness

//***

This reminds me of a conversation, perhaps anecdotal, reported to have occurred between James Joyce and Carl Jung, where Joyce is trying to convince himself that his daughter is not schizophrenic:

Joyce: “After all, I do the same sorts of things with language myself.”

Jung: “You are diving, but she is sinking.”

As Anton Wilson comments on this, “all of us who write anything that goes below the surface of naturalism can understand Joyce’s scepticism. We never know for sure whether we’re diving or just sinking.”

Interesting blog and follow-on comments.

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By: Leondra http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-197759 Leondra Sun, 23 May 2010 22:01:17 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-197759 Dusan, Your title piqued my interest. When I create, do art, in RL or SL, I get in a zone, where flow happens. I know dopamine levels are way up there. It is a high. The disconnect from control, that is schizophrenia, is not at all a part of it. Dusan,
Your title piqued my interest. When I create, do art, in RL or SL, I get in a zone, where flow happens. I know dopamine levels are way up there. It is a high. The disconnect from control, that is schizophrenia, is not at all a part of it.

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By: Ju Roussel http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-197676 Ju Roussel Sun, 23 May 2010 14:38:26 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-197676 hah, Karolinska Instituted PR strikes again (well since practically I live on one of their campuses..). Second Life is probably the only place where both autistic- and schizophrenic-like brains can meet, collaborate and avoid calling meltdowns in each other. We still recognise who is in the other camp. And all is well. hah, Karolinska Instituted PR strikes again (well since practically I live on one of their campuses..). Second Life is probably the only place where both autistic- and schizophrenic-like brains can meet, collaborate and avoid calling meltdowns in each other. We still recognise who is in the other camp. And all is well.

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By: Suzanne Aurilio http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-197170 Suzanne Aurilio Fri, 21 May 2010 20:08:03 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-197170 In recent study I conducted on everyday Residents' learning practices in SL, I formally observed what I had seen just hanging out in SL: it's all about being creative and the ways and reasons creative people tend to learn. I have a background in the arts, and that influenced the lens I used. The meandering and moodling, Jenaia commented about, I saw too. Here’s the study abstract. http://tinyurl.com/yjojsu3 In recent study I conducted on everyday Residents’ learning practices in SL, I formally observed what I had seen just hanging out in SL: it’s all about being creative and the ways and reasons creative people tend to learn. I have a background in the arts, and that influenced the lens I used. The meandering and moodling, Jenaia commented about, I saw too.

Here’s the study abstract.
http://tinyurl.com/yjojsu3

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By: Doreen Garrigus http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-197135 Doreen Garrigus Fri, 21 May 2010 17:32:21 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-197135 How many people in Second Life are actually experimenting with different identities and how many are being their same old selves with a different name and appearance? I agree that there is a great amount of creativity in SL, but the kinds of mental illness linked with creativity---schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder---are also linked with deficits in empathy. People with those illnesses lack the ability to see things from another person's perspective. They aren't going to be very successful at role playing different personalities. How many people in Second Life are actually experimenting with different identities and how many are being their same old selves with a different name and appearance? I agree that there is a great amount of creativity in SL, but the kinds of mental illness linked with creativity—schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder—are also linked with deficits in empathy. People with those illnesses lack the ability to see things from another person’s perspective. They aren’t going to be very successful at role playing different personalities.

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By: brinda Allen http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-196973 brinda Allen Fri, 21 May 2010 03:45:32 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-196973 @ soror nishi... *** "To be able to ‘play’ roles within your RL or SL, you have to be fairly comfortable with who you are (i.e. relatively stable).Those who are slightly disturbed would much rather hang on to Real Life with both hands." *** This statement rings so true to me. In the late 1960s I experimented often with psychedelic chemicals, while I wasn't addicted to the chemicals, I did become addicted to the experience... leading me to my quest for enlightenment without using chemicals. Almost without exception, those people that felt "loss of control" issues were those that seemed to exhibit that lack of stability, that lack of comfortability with who they felt they were. @ soror nishi…
***
“To be able to ‘play’ roles within your RL or SL, you have to be fairly comfortable with who you are (i.e. relatively stable).Those who are slightly disturbed would much rather hang on to Real Life with both hands.”
***
This statement rings so true to me.
In the late 1960s I experimented often with psychedelic chemicals, while I wasn’t addicted to the chemicals, I did become addicted to the experience… leading me to my quest for enlightenment without using chemicals.
Almost without exception, those people that felt “loss of control” issues were those that seemed to exhibit that lack of stability, that lack of comfortability with who they felt they were.

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By: soror nishi http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-196895 soror nishi Thu, 20 May 2010 22:01:41 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-196895 Well, part of this you have got very wrong, Dusan. There are, by definition, conscious and unconscious parts of our psyche. The unconscious part, again by definition, is beyond the control of consciousness. This unconscious is the part that creative people can 'access'... and it's the part that 'overwhelms' people with mental illness. "the people who stay are just crazy enough to feel like they’re home" ...WRONG... these are the people who do not dare to mix reality and fiction for fear they might lose themselves....these are the people who play Farmville, not SL. To be able to 'play' roles within your RL or SL, you have to be fairly comfortable with who you are (i.e. relatively stable).Those who are slightly disturbed would much rather hang on to Real Life with both hands. Well, part of this you have got very wrong, Dusan.

There are, by definition, conscious and unconscious parts of our psyche. The unconscious part, again by definition, is beyond the control of consciousness. This unconscious is the part that creative people can ‘access’… and it’s the part that ‘overwhelms’ people with mental illness.

“the people who stay are just crazy enough to feel like they’re home” …WRONG… these are the people who do not dare to mix reality and fiction for fear they might lose themselves….these are the people who play Farmville, not SL.

To be able to ‘play’ roles within your RL or SL, you have to be fairly comfortable with who you are (i.e. relatively stable).Those who are slightly disturbed would much rather hang on to Real Life with both hands.

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By: Tateru Nino http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-196886 Tateru Nino Thu, 20 May 2010 21:33:00 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-196886 Creativity is also strongly linked to biological stress. Neurologically, it's about parallel activation cascades. Creativity is also strongly linked to biological stress. Neurologically, it’s about parallel activation cascades.

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By: Angela Talamasca http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-196824 Angela Talamasca Thu, 20 May 2010 17:03:55 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-196824 Interesting, but... Schizophrenia != "dual" or "split" personalities. That's a very old myth that has been carried forth from the early days of that particular labeling. In reality, schizophrenia dx involve both positive (i.e., delusions, hallucinations, etc) and negative (i.e., paucity of speech, flat affect, etc) symptoms. In other words, the symptomology has zero to do with a "split" or "dual" personality, though, it can involve being "split off from reality" in as much as the sufferer may experience something more akin to seeing a "different world" than that which those who are not afflicted with that particular disorder might perceive. But yes, the research has long shown a significant correlation between "creativity" and "mental illness." Where "mental illness" is not only defined but sometimes, even constructed, by the very society in which we live. And it is about as fluid as fiction... and faddish, too... a la the dx du jour. For example, in the 1980s, it was eating disorders, in 90s, ADHD, and presently, autism seems to be all the rage. We, as a society, love labeling people who do not fit our world view. That being said, I leave you with a quote from the book, "Mad Travelers: Reflections on the Reality of Transient Mental Illness" by Ian Hacking: "The most important contribution here is the metaphor of an ecological niche within which mental illnesses thrive. Such niches require a number of vectors. I emphasize four. One, inevitably, is medical. The illness should fit into a larger framework of diagnosis: a taxonomy of illness. The most interesting vector is cultural polarity: the illness should be situated between two elements of contemporary culture, one romantic and virtuous, the other vicious and tending to crime. What counts as crime or as virtue is itself a characteristic of the larger society, and the virtues are not fixed for all time: prudence, a virtue for the Protestant bourgeoisie of early modern Europe, had been a mere weakness in the feudal era. Then we need a vector of observability; that the disorder should be visible as a disorder, as suffering, as something to escape. Finally something more familiar: the illness, despite the pain it produces, should also provide some release that is not available elsewhere in the culture in which it thrives. The lectures are rich in historical anecdote and curious details. But they are not mere stories. They lay out, by an example, the power of the concept of an ecological niche for a transient mental illness. I take for granted that mental illness -- something that counts as madness within a society -- requires both victims and experts. We call these patients and clinicians" Interesting, but… Schizophrenia != “dual” or “split” personalities. That’s a very old myth that has been carried forth from the early days of that particular labeling. In reality, schizophrenia dx involve both positive (i.e., delusions, hallucinations, etc) and negative (i.e., paucity of speech, flat affect, etc) symptoms.

In other words, the symptomology has zero to do with a “split” or “dual” personality, though, it can involve being “split off from reality” in as much as the sufferer may experience something more akin to seeing a “different world” than that which those who are not afflicted with that particular disorder might perceive.

But yes, the research has long shown a significant correlation between “creativity” and “mental illness.” Where “mental illness” is not only defined but sometimes, even constructed, by the very society in which we live. And it is about as fluid as fiction… and faddish, too… a la the dx du jour.

For example, in the 1980s, it was eating disorders, in 90s, ADHD, and presently, autism seems to be all the rage. We, as a society, love labeling people who do not fit our world view.

That being said, I leave you with a quote from the book, “Mad Travelers: Reflections on the Reality of Transient Mental Illness” by Ian Hacking:

“The most important contribution here is the metaphor of an ecological niche within which mental illnesses thrive. Such niches require a number of vectors. I emphasize four. One, inevitably, is medical. The illness should fit into a larger framework of diagnosis: a taxonomy of illness. The most interesting vector is cultural polarity: the illness should be situated between two elements of contemporary culture, one romantic and virtuous, the other vicious and tending to crime. What counts as crime or as virtue is itself a characteristic of the larger society, and the virtues are not fixed for all time: prudence, a virtue for the Protestant bourgeoisie of early modern Europe, had been a mere weakness in the feudal era. Then we need a vector of observability; that the disorder should be visible as a disorder, as suffering, as something to escape. Finally something more familiar: the illness, despite the pain it produces, should also provide some release that is not available elsewhere in the culture in which it thrives.

The lectures are rich in historical anecdote and curious details. But they are not mere stories. They lay out, by an example, the power of the concept of an ecological niche for a transient mental illness. I take for granted that mental illness — something that counts as madness within a society — requires both victims and experts. We call these patients and clinicians”

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By: Nick Paquot http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/05/20/creativity-and-mental-health-do-your-dopamine-levels-explain-why-youre-in-second-life/comment-page-1/#comment-196794 Nick Paquot Thu, 20 May 2010 15:20:26 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2265#comment-196794 I'm not surprised by this one bit. The more I've learned about people in SL, the more I've realized that many of them struggle with at least low-grade mental illness or emotional disorders. It may also be that people are more open about it with online friends. I know that I'm slow to share with friends in real life that I struggle with bi-polar disorder, but I've felt secure enough to let friends in SL know. And guess what? I'm the creative director at an interactive media company in my first life. I love my job and I wouldn't change who I am. I’m not surprised by this one bit. The more I’ve learned about people in SL, the more I’ve realized that many of them struggle with at least low-grade mental illness or emotional disorders. It may also be that people are more open about it with online friends. I know that I’m slow to share with friends in real life that I struggle with bi-polar disorder, but I’ve felt secure enough to let friends in SL know.

And guess what? I’m the creative director at an interactive media company in my first life. I love my job and I wouldn’t change who I am.

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