Comments on: Learning from Clever People: Lessons for Online Communities http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/ Virtual worlds and creativity, business, collaboration, and identity. Thu, 07 Jul 2011 19:08:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ener Hax http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-252619 Ener Hax Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:36:24 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-252619 LL turned its back on me. i was no miracle but come one, blogging daily, 1000's of flickr pics, speaking at conferences, and having 19 sims? with about 6 support tickets in two years, i think a $3000 a month customer like me could warrant a tweeted hello eh? oh well, life moves on and so do virtual worlds . . . LL turned its back on me. i was no miracle but come one, blogging daily, 1000′s of flickr pics, speaking at conferences, and having 19 sims?

with about 6 support tickets in two years, i think a $3000 a month customer like me could warrant a tweeted hello eh?

oh well, life moves on and so do virtual worlds . . .

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By: Ferd Frederix http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-250437 Ferd Frederix Sat, 01 Jan 2011 23:42:51 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-250437 That would make about 2,200 'Catalytic Creators', 22,000 'Creators', 220,000 'Commentators' that Prokofy has zinged :-), and 2.2 million actual people using SL. Hmm.. sounds about right to me. So lets extrapolate downward: there should be 220 Lindens running around, 22 actually doing any work, and 2 swapping the CEO job back and forth. That would make about 2,200 ‘Catalytic Creators’, 22,000 ‘Creators’, 220,000 ‘Commentators’ that Prokofy has zinged :-) , and 2.2 million actual people using SL. Hmm.. sounds about right to me.

So lets extrapolate downward: there should be 220 Lindens running around, 22 actually doing any work, and 2 swapping the CEO job back and forth.

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By: Vivienne http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-244939 Vivienne Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:59:48 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-244939 Medhue, caught in your techie microcosm you obviously do not get a single word of sense out of Dusan´s brilliant essay. Unfortunately the results of favoring pre-made, off-world skill based content over in-world creativity will not favor you in the end. Nor anyone else. Not even Linden Lab. Medhue, caught in your techie microcosm you obviously do not get a single word of sense out of Dusan´s brilliant essay.

Unfortunately the results of favoring pre-made, off-world skill based content over in-world creativity will not favor you in the end. Nor anyone else. Not even Linden Lab.

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By: Medhue http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243727 Medhue Fri, 03 Dec 2010 01:26:38 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243727 Well, sorry, for taking up so much of the conversation. @ Prok - Why can't you build things with mesh? Do you not think that people will make meshes for builders, or builder packs. The reality is, that people will make what the market wants. Lots of people used sculpties yet never had to know how to make them. The bottom line is that sculpties are a waste of triangles, and mesh will actually be less data for every1's pc to download. In many cases, alot less data. Custom faces and texture maps will vastly reduce the total amounts of textures that are required for every build. What would normally take 8 textures, now will be done with 1. This was somewhat possible before, but was way to complicated for any1 to actually do on builds any impossible for some1 else to edit. I actually plan on releasing all the texture maps for my creations with the products, so If some1 is good in photoshop, they can totally customize the product with their own perfectly mapped texture. Well, sorry, for taking up so much of the conversation.

@ Prok – Why can’t you build things with mesh? Do you not think that people will make meshes for builders, or builder packs. The reality is, that people will make what the market wants. Lots of people used sculpties yet never had to know how to make them.

The bottom line is that sculpties are a waste of triangles, and mesh will actually be less data for every1′s pc to download. In many cases, alot less data. Custom faces and texture maps will vastly reduce the total amounts of textures that are required for every build. What would normally take 8 textures, now will be done with 1. This was somewhat possible before, but was way to complicated for any1 to actually do on builds any impossible for some1 else to edit.

I actually plan on releasing all the texture maps for my creations with the products, so If some1 is good in photoshop, they can totally customize the product with their own perfectly mapped texture.

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By: Trudy Takacs http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243204 Trudy Takacs Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:25:34 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243204 It's too bad to see how the discussions start in a genuine effort of collective discussion among the residents/users but then seem to deteriorate to bickering. Maybe it's the unease we all feel about the uncertain future/direction of our favored virtual world. My two cents: Skills are different from natural aptitudes. Some have a natural ability to remember design and color while others have a natural ability to remember and manipulate numbers. Ditto when it concerns constructing, writing or working with music. As a teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL), I've observed classes where many learners have spent hours practicing and be extremely motivated to learn. They do eventually acquire success and skill. However, there are some who simply have a natural ear and ability to learn a new language when they aren't necessarily better or work harder at it. Creativity, skill and talent abound in all areas; the skill level is for the subjective discernment of the resident (or marketplace). Those who don't build/construct will organize, manage or write about those who do. Most people will gravitate toward what feels like a natural ability and what is gratifying, sometimes through trial and error. Some simply won't spend their time with Second Life but in some other form, perhaps. That 'uh-huh" moment of self-discovery about a previously untapped/unkown ability is what has created many serious devotees to Second Life. Second Life offers second lives--or another world, avenue in their life's journey. What a shame should that quality get lost in search of hyped gamification de jour. It’s too bad to see how the discussions start in a genuine effort of collective discussion among the residents/users but then seem to deteriorate to bickering. Maybe it’s the unease we all feel about the uncertain future/direction of our favored virtual world.

My two cents: Skills are different from natural aptitudes. Some have a natural ability to remember design and color while others have a natural ability to remember and manipulate numbers. Ditto when it concerns constructing, writing or working with music.

As a teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages (ESOL), I’ve observed classes where many learners have spent hours practicing and be extremely motivated to learn. They do eventually acquire success and skill. However, there are some who simply have a natural ear and ability to learn a new language when they aren’t necessarily better or work harder at it.

Creativity, skill and talent abound in all areas; the skill level is for the subjective discernment of the resident (or marketplace). Those who don’t build/construct will organize, manage or write about those who do. Most people will gravitate toward what feels like a natural ability and what is gratifying, sometimes through trial and error. Some simply won’t spend their time with Second Life but in some other form, perhaps.

That ‘uh-huh” moment of self-discovery about a previously untapped/unkown ability is what has created many serious devotees to Second Life.

Second Life offers second lives–or another world, avenue in their life’s journey. What a shame should that quality get lost in search of hyped gamification de jour.

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By: Melissa Yeuxdoux http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243192 Melissa Yeuxdoux Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:19:48 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243192 "As long as you call people or their ideas names as you usually do, such as calling Medhue a “condescending prig,” you cannot consider yourself a reasoned voice, debater, or intelligent conversationalist." Alas, that presumes rationality and connection with reality. “As long as you call people or their ideas names as you usually do, such as calling Medhue a “condescending prig,” you cannot consider yourself a reasoned voice, debater, or intelligent conversationalist.”

Alas, that presumes rationality and connection with reality.

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By: Vivienne Daguerre http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243120 Vivienne Daguerre Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:31:11 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243120 Quoting Medhue: "There is a huge difference between I actually can’t do something, and I don’t want to, or I have no interest to do it. For many people, I can’t is simply a delusion that has been pounded into their heads." I have to disagree with you Medhue. Not everyone has the ability to make good mesh. They may with effort be able to learn to make shapes and such, but it requires some artistic talent to shape mesh and texture it. I don't see this as a problem though. After all, not everyone can script. Not everyone has the voice for internet radio or the ability to talk smoothly and well on the air. Not everyone has the ability to make animations well. Not everyone writes well. My point is that very, very few people can do it all. In Second Life people will do what they have always done. Those who wish to create content will find what they do well and do it. We must also remember that not everyone wants to create content. Some are here to socialize, host events, play games, role play, and just have fun. They support the rest of us by buying what we make. Quoting Prokofy: "I don't know whether I'm a 'clever person' or 'catalytic converter' or whatever." I do not think you are either of those things Prokofy. As long as you call people or their ideas names as you usually do, such as calling Medhue a "condescending prig," you cannot consider yourself a reasoned voice, debater, or intelligent conversationalist. Name calling means you are trying to be inflammatory and that makes you a troll, and that is all. And now I await your expected name calling and sputtering that you consider a reasoned response, and at great length. At least you are predictable. Quoting Medhue:

“There is a huge difference between I actually can’t do something, and I don’t want to, or I have no interest to do it. For many people, I can’t is simply a delusion that has been pounded into their heads.”

I have to disagree with you Medhue. Not everyone has the ability to make good mesh. They may with effort be able to learn to make shapes and such, but it requires some artistic talent to shape mesh and texture it.

I don’t see this as a problem though. After all, not everyone can script. Not everyone has the voice for internet radio or the ability to talk smoothly and well on the air. Not everyone has the ability to make animations well. Not everyone writes well.

My point is that very, very few people can do it all. In Second Life people will do what they have always done. Those who wish to create content will find what they do well and do it.

We must also remember that not everyone wants to create content. Some are here to socialize, host events, play games, role play, and just have fun. They support the rest of us by buying what we make.

Quoting Prokofy:

“I don’t know whether I’m a ‘clever person’ or ‘catalytic converter’ or whatever.”

I do not think you are either of those things Prokofy. As long as you call people or their ideas names as you usually do, such as calling Medhue a “condescending prig,” you cannot consider yourself a reasoned voice, debater, or intelligent conversationalist. Name calling means you are trying to be inflammatory and that makes you a troll, and that is all.

And now I await your expected name calling and sputtering that you consider a reasoned response, and at great length. At least you are predictable.

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By: Medhue http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243116 Medhue Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:20:48 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243116 Oh, I "did" just pick up 3D art tools. Many of them. 5 years ago, I could barely use Photoshop. On Youtube, there are tutorials for every single 3d program out there, covering every single feature. Many creators in SL had no real experience before SL, but we all learned. I also know many more people that have learned just like that. Just go look at the mesh forums and you'll see hundred of them all learning from each other. Oh, I “did” just pick up 3D art tools. Many of them. 5 years ago, I could barely use Photoshop. On Youtube, there are tutorials for every single 3d program out there, covering every single feature. Many creators in SL had no real experience before SL, but we all learned. I also know many more people that have learned just like that. Just go look at the mesh forums and you’ll see hundred of them all learning from each other.

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By: Medhue http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-243109 Medhue Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:54:31 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-243109 Me, really? Sorry, I happen to think people can do alot more than they think they can. I see it all the time. Some people actually think you need to be born with skills to have them. Guess what? All skills are learned, and almost any1 with the interest can learn them. There is a huge difference between I actually can't do something, and I don't want to, or I have no interest to do it. For many people, I can't is simply a delusion that has been pounded into their heads. Me, really? Sorry, I happen to think people can do alot more than they think they can. I see it all the time. Some people actually think you need to be born with skills to have them. Guess what? All skills are learned, and almost any1 with the interest can learn them.
There is a huge difference between I actually can’t do something, and I don’t want to, or I have no interest to do it. For many people, I can’t is simply a delusion that has been pounded into their heads.

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By: Prokofy Neva http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/11/26/learning-from-clever-people-lessons-for-online-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-242926 Prokofy Neva Mon, 29 Nov 2010 06:25:55 +0000 http://dusanwriter.com/?p=2653#comment-242926 Oh, stop it Medhue, you're a condescending prig. You don't just 'pick up' 3-D art tools "just like that". There's a big difference between learning how to operate menus that are more or less straightforward (although there are LOTS of them) to build in SL, even at a primitive level, and making content that is good to look at. I can make objects with prims. I can't make *good* objects with prims. But my being able to at least make *some* things with prims means that I can buy prefabs and modify things and decorate and make a sense of place. I CANNOT DO THAT WITH MESH. Oh, stop it Medhue, you’re a condescending prig. You don’t just ‘pick up’ 3-D art tools “just like that”. There’s a big difference between learning how to operate menus that are more or less straightforward (although there are LOTS of them) to build in SL, even at a primitive level, and making content that is good to look at. I can make objects with prims. I can’t make *good* objects with prims. But my being able to at least make *some* things with prims means that I can buy prefabs and modify things and decorate and make a sense of place.

I CANNOT DO THAT WITH MESH.

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