Goddess of the Grid Bettina Tizzy has a lengthy interview with Jim Sink of Avatar Reality on the forthcoming Blue Mars virtual world. Or worlds, if I’m going to go by my discussions with Raph Koster, because each world will be self-contained with its own rules and execution of code (LUA and a casual games API), joined together by a common portal and cross-world chat.
Jim has encouraging things to say about the content development model, although it also sounds like there are some policy issues they haven’t entirely worked out yet: adult-oriented content and sex, and the use of alts among them.
I’ve anticipated Blue Mars for a long time, saying a year ago that it would raise the bar on what people expect from the visual presentation of virtual worlds. And while I’m still excited about the platform, I’m also of the belief that while Blue Mars (it’s unfortunate that the acronym is BM but I digress) may give consumer brands a home – one that they wish they had back in the hype phase of Second Life, it will be more of a competition for MMOs, console games, and perhaps casual games like Metaplace.
For a consumer brand – a Red Bull or a Coke or whatever, the ability to tightly control the user experience will be a godsend after the flying phallus days of SL. The ability to track users, their time in a space, and to provide AI ‘shop keepers’ – all big pluses.
Having said all that, I’m now in wait and see mode, rather than “I can’t wait to see”. The demos from the conferences where Blue Mars have been shown have been gorgeous. They make all the right noises about 3D pipelines. But they face a few challenges:
- The platform is built for Vista machines. While lower operating systems can run it, they have a high initial bar. They’ve long said that they would build high and wait for the world to catch up, but they risk alienating users who find the experience less than advertised because of their equipment.
- On that note, Jim talks about educators using the platform – but don’t count on it any time soon. Teachers complain about the minimum requirements for SL….Blue Mars raises the bar higher.
- Blue Mars has been announcing a beta roll-out for a year now. Initially it was last summer. Now we’re looking at a developer sand box in the next few weeks. Whether they can actually get a beta phase rolled out this summer is definitely a wait-and-see issue.
- The content development model still strikes me as slightly strange. There’s less clarity around in-world commerce than I’d like, and the multi-stage content creation access, while practical, leaves me wondering whether having an “inner circle” (a sort of FIC of content creators, I suppose) could lead to challenges in attracting and supporting partners. If you need to apply to be on the list, then the content creators chomping at the bit to give it a run might be disappointed and decamp for elsewhere.
- And finally, it doesn’t support Macs. And last time I checked, a lot of early adopters are Mac users – as Mitch Wagner pointed out just go to any games or virtual world conference and glance around at what laptops people are using. Alienating this audience may seem like a small thing (“you can use bootcamp”) and it was a trade-off in order to use Crysis, but it might be too much of a trade-off to be able to ride an early hype wave.
But check out Bettina’s interview for yourself – there’s lots of good insight and explanation, and it’s a great piece.
Dusan, you righly are pointing out that BlueMars will be more of a competition for MMOs, console games, and perhaps casual games like Metaplace.
I thought the same thing, but after reading the really interesting interview on Bettina blog, I’m starting to think that they will place the brand exactly in the middle between the traditional MMOGs and the new social worlds.
From a certain perspective they are looking at the traditional scene of gamers and online massive multiplayers. You can see that from their attention to the gaming slang, launguage and mood. But from the other side, they are clearly looking at the social worlds people. Think to their attention to the educational, creative and corporate uses of the platform.
They are exactly in the middle of the road also in the context of user generated contents. From one side, the regular users won’t have any chance to create contents. From the other, the developers, for free, will have the chance to download a series of tools and create/import/upload freely their contents on Bluemars.
I saw the same approach with Kaneva, if though with less interest towards users/developers contents and with Metaplace, that is actively positioning both for mmorpg users and virtual worlds members, if though “in a sort of casual mode”.
I also think that this sort of mixing between social worlds and mmorpg could benefit the whole industry and acelerate the acknowledgement of metaverse culture.
The lack of cross-platform support is a big black mark in my books. I’d far rather something that was more inclusive and didn’t look as good.
@Pierluigi: As for the MMOG/social-environment divide, Entropia already straddles that – and I’m not sure that the blending is very successful. Are you?
I do agree that a high percentage of Mac users are early adopters of new technologies.
Also, I’m really skeptical of the long term prospects of any platform that is windows only. I know that sounds insane, but I believe in a few years windows will be fairly marginalized and that various unix based operating systems will be much more prevalent. It seems short-sighted to ignore that, but I suppose for the time being it just irritates us Mac users, and most people don’t care, so it’s irrelevant to game/VW platform creators now.
Bettina,
are you on a Mac or PC?…. Dusan?
cube3
I entered the virtual world as contemplative artist and playful observer, not as gamer, social seeker, or advertising target (though I’m not averse to those- just not interested or able to play the active role), and am already put off by the huge differences in visual quality and performance on my Mac in Second Life. I have no desire to enter and learn and help grow an alternate virtual world unless one opens up that not only supports but is enhanced by Mac platform. There is only so much time in a day or, more importantly, a lifetime. I’m thankful that I do have the choice to use a Windows machine and sometimes must because I need to be able to see richness of detail and clarity of light that is not possible to see on even my newest Mac, but this frustrates me to the point I sometimes wonder why I bother.
@Tateru I think that online gamers were (and probably still are) the leading generation for 3d virtual worlds and virtual environment users. People in the gaming and mmog scene created machinima, fan art. They are familiar with user generated contents. Some companies in traditional mmorpgs are also opening to a wide-huge use of user generated contents and there are no obvious reasons for this gap between social worlds and more traditional multiplayers.
All of this background could be a resource for social worlds.
@Cube – I’m on a PC and a Mac.
I have a Mac laptop which I use for all the usual stuff, and is my primary machine for accessing SL for business meetings, collaboration, that kind of thing.
I have a high-end PC for when I’m rezzing prims and because it supports 3DS and ZBrush and has high-end rendering hardware.
its bettina whos answer i think is more telling….
i was mac till 96, then added pcs to do rt3d since apple had no vision then:)
but as you suggest you do your SL and presentations on the mac, i would suggest that its still as it has been for a decade
no mac, no creatives that sell(make money from it) no virtual worlds 3d
only another game engine built…lol
Now, who cares about Mac OS other than the fanboys/-girls?
Share of desktop operating systems:
Windows Vista 22.29%
XP 68.27%
2000 1.24%
Total Win 90.99%
Mac OS 4.81%
Linux 1.05%
OMG, more people uses Win2k than Linux! Bad news for Mr. Tux. (I use Ubuntu though, tee-hee.)
Src:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
i didnt say creative pros and amatures are fanboys of mr.jobs… they sadly are… as i was once…
but your numbers are irrelevant to the intent of what matters…
that 4.8 % are responsible for aprox 90% of the “paid for” content offered on the web that worth playing with or looking at.
in the tiny vr worlds fifedom of SL that is the only one, maybe IMVU to a bit. that offers mass 3d build tools for resale objects inworld, id bet the mac pc creator number is about 60-70% mac dominant, is there a linden labs blog on the mac/pc creation rates…?
bettina, what is the ratio of your NPIRL group?
I was once a mac user, and had to decamp to Windows back in 2000 due to a lack of good support for 3d.
IMO it’s not changed a whole lot, though it has gotten better. But most professional pipelines are not Mac-based in the game industry, they are quite firmly based on windows and 3d Studio Max is still the unquestioned juggernaut of most of the artists.
I personally support crossplatform 3d programs (like Modo) but seriously I doubt that Microsoft will lose its dominant position anytime soon, just like it hasn’t in the last 9 years since I moved to MS.
A very sleepy Bettina checking in. I have 3 pcs, two on xp and a laptop on Vista which I loathe. Used to have a Macbook Pro, which I enjoyed very much, but gave it to my daughter.
BTW, I had a lot of this first, weeks ago:
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/03/blue-moon.html
For once it will be a joy to watch a world get up and running that doesn’t cater to Macs and geek early adapter sandbox types who crash sims, but to more refined creators who go through the strainer of an application system.
But as I’ve noted on my blog, and as you can see from the discussion there, a world where you can’t jump in and create at an amateur level is very dichotomized and a gulf between “talented” and “not talented” enlarges.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
As for sex, I’m betting that they will figure out how to allow this by saying it’s up to developers to label their worlds.
As for this Vista stuff, I saw it and checked it out. Vista, like it or not, is on every single computer sold in every mainstream normal computer store now, i.e. not all those geeky sites with names like Eggz4U or whatever but ordinary Best Buy stores. Furthermore, the graphics card that can play SL better, and play Blue Mars, is now in a lot of the Vista machines in the ordinary stores. So the time has come, and Blue Mars is ready for it, that’s not going to be an issue, from what I can tell.
Great posts both Dusan and Bettina. I believe it’s still just a beginning phase so a new platform entering this market has a huge chance. BM sounds like a platform with mixed functionality, hope their content creation and process will empower a vibrant economy, like one created in SL.
I think a lot of people are discounting the netbook market, which cannot do content creation in 3d whatsoever, yet can play Cryengine based games through a web interface like OnLive.
These may have a preponderance of Unix operating systems, but content creation on these systems is a moot point, you won’t be able to run the apps necessary to create it, unless they are also “virtualised” in the cloud – which I doubt will happen with most of the graphics apps anytime soon. You’ll be a “viewer” on these platforms in the main. Welcome back TV I suppose.
TV never left..lol it’s become youtube/hulu. and video storytelling wont die soon…neither did radio for TV..
Wake up Bettina:)– mac vs PC.. not just you..lol, but the NPIRL galz and boyz….the list on the pages rt side:) Macs or PCs?
Flash 2d animation /art exploded a decade ago from the MAC side…
The question is “have” enough creators working in 3d moved onto ownership of PCs as well…3DMAX.etc… or on they all on Macs still in the creative studios from NY to LA…
IF yes, web3d worlds may grow faster, if still NO, then as its been for 10 years, the wait will continue. But flash 3d -paperlike stuff- will grow- as it did in 2001-3 again. Erain stuff. but not worlds, really.. more metaplace tiles at best.
SL – was because of internal 3dtools/prims/PLUS IP rights , a lucky accident;) for many amatures to 3d media.. Thats as its obvious now, has been both good and bad for many who responded to the blog hype-press;)
2d media pros are often on macs
3d media pros are often on PCs, or even more obscure platforms like SGI workstations.
Cube, I think you’re not in the real world… 2d and 3d are different worlds. When I transitioned from 2d to 3d, I had to give up the mac. Most 3d pros are not on macs. It’s just a fact of life, not a judgement.
I like macs, don’t get me wrong, but the 3d world is mostly PC, and so your argument is lacking. You’re just acting like a fanboi, while missing the point that the virtual world biz will probably hold a lot of different platforms by the time its all through. Just because one isn’t working for your platform doesn’t mean none of them will, nor will the lack of Mac mean disaster for a Windows based world, nor will the lack of a mac client even prevent Mac users from entering it via bootcamp and similar.
And one of my best pals runs Windows in a window, on a Mac Pro… it’s as easy as that, really.
Bleh, fanbois.
lol.. im in the real world…. and I have a real world history between the mac and the pc, and the 2d/ 3d folks youre talking about. 20 plus years of them:) I introduced realtime 3d for apple in NY on the mac in 1995( epic apple fail) and bought the first version of lightwave for the PC in95 as well. for example.:)..plus i ran 2 web3d sigs from 1996-2003.
I think youll find that the “amatuers” that fill up and “created” things Like Second LIFE, from the creative side hype, are mainly mac folks, clothing textures(2d) and all.
YOull also find that creative media agencies are all mac dominant still, and thus didnt “believe” in 3d on the web until SL was on a mac in 2006.
And believe it or not, 3d game pros, using max and maya STILL dont really care about virtual worlds like Blue Mars, unless they are paid to work on/for them.:) Just as 2d pros in animation cared nothing for flash on a mac in 1996:)
in 2009 i do believe that cross platform has finally made a dent in the creative cgi users market.
how large a dent again, will be seen by the adoption of any of the windows only “virtual service worlds platforms”
where I am in the world dosent matter hypatia, where the rest of the world IS, will to the many who are spending tons of time and money in web3d content plays again.
btw-:)
“2d and 3d are different worlds. ”
that statement is very true from a creative service industries POV of the last 10 years….
but its also exactly WHY…windows only, or mac only web3d/ vr WORLDS online have failed for a decade.:)
in SL, both 2d and 3d combine, with some scripts, and hopefully some business accumen, to create a “new media” type.. REALTIME 3D.. rt3d. media.. which is what Im talking about, its what all these blue mars want to facilitate and transform into microcomerce trade profits…..
that IS the real world,
one ive been in for a decade waiting for you all to show up at;) and since the 2006 SL/blog break through of hype:) many(millions of you..lol?) are now here:)
staying is the trick;)
The main differences between Blue Mars and Second Life are:
The Blue Mars platform has a superior performance in terms of visuals, physics and simultaneous occupancy.
Second Life permits end user created content.
I think the majority of Second Life users don’t really care too much about creating content. In the early days of Second Life most users were also creators but, after the massive growth of SL (yes — despite the bad press of 2008 which inevitably followed the good press of 2007, Second Life is very much alive and growing) most users are just users. But a subset of very creative and energetic users is and will continue to be attracted of the unlimited, informal and casual creativity permitted by SL. These users will stay in Second Life and continue to create compelling attractions, which will also keep casual users in. Also, the social community of frequent SL users is very strong, with personal and group bonds which are hard to break and will tend to keep everyone in. Blue Mars is one of the most exciting new developments in the metaverse, but it is not a Second Life killer. I expect both platforms will flourish.
At the same time Blue Mars can and probably will be more appealing to corporate and public sector operators. Dusan has concisely stated why: “For a consumer brand – a Red Bull or a Coke or whatever, the ability to tightly control the user experience will be a godsend after the flying phallus days of SL. The ability to track users, their time in a space, and to provide AI ’shop keepers’ – all big pluses.”. The flying phallus comment refers to the unrestricted user creativity in Second Life has resulted in some bad press: most articles about Second Life in the non specialized press are about virtual sex, scandals, financial scams and gambling — even though the last two things are history after Linden Lab has banned SL gambling and unregulated banking, and VR sex may soon follow. When I talk to new clients about Second Life, this is the kind of questions I get most. As a result of the bad press Second Life has been considered as an image problem by the most conservative operators, and I expect they will prefer the more controlled environment, and of course the superior performance, of Blue Mars.
I am especially interested in the the applications of online VR to education. The Cry Engine 2 platform upon which Blue Mars is based is more and more frequently used for education and professional training. Though there are no examples at this moment, I assume that the system components and educational material used for classes in Second Life, Power Point, video, voice, streaming video, Moodle integration etc., will be implemented by Blue Mars developers. But I expect the most popular edicational applications in Blue Mars will be those that require highly realistic VR environments with state-of-the-art visuals, illumination, physics and AI. Architecture of course, engineering, professional training for the industrial machinery, space, but also history and the visual arts. I expect historic events to be faithfully recreated in Blue Mars, and the platform to become a favorite of machinima producers.
I’m also a Mac user, and was very disappointed that AR doesn’t want to make a BM client that will run on the mac OS. I am a RL graphic designer and also an SL content creator. When I was in college (grad in 2000), I was trained in both 2D and 3D, the entire art department was all run on a Mac and were all Mac programs run on the Mac OS (no boot camp, no popping over to the PC), even for the 3D creation and animation. Our university had a whole building of computer labs, with one large special lab full of Macs for the art majors, so it’s not like the university was all Mac either. I also know that this hasn’t changed either since I’ve graduated. Although 2D and 3D are different, there are definite similarities and it’s not that big of a jump for a talented 2D artist to make fantastic 3D content. I wouldn’t have stayed in SL for very long if I wasn’t able to create. I am a creative and it is my passion to do so, I really have no desire to get in a 3D environment to just hang out. I’m not sure if I’m the typical virtual world user, but to discount a whole group of people like me I think is a mistake. I’m sure I will still be checking out BM, once I figure out how to use boot camp that came on this computer. But whether I stay or not will depend on what it’s going to cost me and if I will make any real income there– and if there are too many barriers, I’ll just stick with SL where I am doing just fine.
i hear/feel your pain JG… only if they all listened to folks like me before.lol dozens told the tech 3d geeks all this since 1995s first showing of vrml by SGI in NY to NY creatives… oh well.
BUT… google, them techoverlords somehow DID finally open their listening port..lol…
O3D… right now plays on all platforms i can see, and can import collada from even mac based 3d apps…
i believe alot of exit plans just got shuttered today…. the death of lively might be the birth of real web3d internetz…:)
cube3
@Giulio Prisco: “I think the majority of Second Life users don’t really care too much about creating content.”
I am not someone who can “create content.” But in SL I am in an environment with a very low bar to entry for creators. This results in a very wide selection that helps me be whatever I want to be. If, like Sony Home, creation is limited in Blue Mars to a few, why would I want to be a part of that?
As for Macs, I’m all for Mac clients. And Linux clients.
My personal experience with SL on Macs is that I don’t see any difference that can’t be explained by hardware or drivers. I think one of several right moves that Linden Lab did was to make their client Open Source and ported it to Windows, Mac (Universal binaries!), and Linux.
I think anyone who has a mac, knows that there is not widespread support for the platform. There are plenty of PC users ready and willing to create the content for this game, and I am looking forward to doing so. Besides, who buys mac for gaming and wouldn’t be much better off using a windows based PC for that purpose?
With the Mac, you spend twice as much on a machine that is slower and lacks features that PC’s half the price have. And then you have hardly any software to choose from. The Mac world is a tiny and crippled one, and one you pay a premium to get into.
[...] Sink of Blue Mars was recently interviewed on Metanomics. Watch the full interview here. Or read an earlier review of Blue Mars). Tagged: blue mars, flash, mediaapi, Virtual [...]